Sep 24, 2024 Cultural Heritage Commission

AT THIS TIME, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE SWEARING OF THE WITNESSES.

IF ANYONE WILL BE HERE SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF A PROJECT, WILL YOU PLEASE STAND? AND IF YOU RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR OR AFFIRM THAT THE EVIDENCE SHALL YOU, SHALL GIVE TO THE CULTURAL HERITAGE COMMISSION MEETING SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH.

WE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE DIRECTOR'S REPORT.

ON A REGULAR AGENDA,

[1. 24-54949 Recommendation to receive and file Director’s Report. Suggested Action: Approve recommendation. ]

GOOD EVENING, CHAIR, COMMISSIONER.

SORRY.

BEFORE WE BEGIN THE ITEM, WE JUST NEED A MOTION AND A SECOND.

[00:05:08]

SO I SEE THE MOTION FROM VICE CHAIR WAN AND OUR SECOND FROM COMMISSIONER GIFE.

THAT'S JACQUELINE PADILLA PEREZ.

GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS, UH, TO GIVE, UH, TONIGHT'S, UH, DIRECTOR'S REPORT.

UH, SENIOR HISTORIC PLANNER, ALEJANDRO PLACENCIA.

UH, THANK YOU.

UH, SO TONIGHT I JUST WANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE HAVE OUR NEW COMMISSIONER, UH, STARTING TONIGHT.

UH, SHE BRINGS A LOT OF GREAT EXPERIENCE AND BACKGROUND, UH, TO THIS COMMISSION.

SO I THINK WE'RE REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO HAVING HER, UH, BE ON THIS COMMISSION.

UH, WE ALSO JUST WANT TO MAKE, UH, AN ANNOUNCEMENT OF GRATITUDE THAT WE HAVE FOR KATHLEEN IRVINE WHO, UH, SERVED, UH, A GOOD AMOUNT OF TIME HERE ON THIS COMMISSION AND WAS A REALLY GOOD COMMISSIONER.

AND WE WANT TO THANK HER FOR ALL OF HER WORK AND TIME THAT SHE COMMITTED TO THIS COMMISSION.

UH, SO IF YOU HAPPEN TO BE WATCHING KATHLEEN, UH, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

UH, THE OTHER ITEM THAT WE WANTED TO MAKE MENTION OF TONIGHT IS, UH, THAT THE MILLS ACT, UH, WAS APPROVED AT CITY COUNCIL ON SEPTEMBER 17TH.

UH, SO THAT IS, UH, MOVING ALONG, UH, IN A TIMELY FASHION THERE.

UM, LET'S SEE.

THE OTHER ONE THAT WE WANTED TO BRING UP, UH, THIRD ITEM IS, IS THAT WE, WITH THE DEPARTURE OF, UH, KATHLEEN, UH, OR COMMISSIONER IRVINE, UH, WE WILL HAVE ELECTIONS IN OCTOBER.

UH, SO IF ANYBODY IS INTERESTED IN, UH, BECOMING EITHER CHAIR OR VICE CHAIR, UH, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ABOUT A MONTH OR SO TO KIND OF THINK ABOUT THAT.

UM, AND THEN WE WILL HAVE THOSE ELECTIONS, UH, COMING UP, UH, AT THE NEXT, UH, MEETING.

UH, LASTLY REGARDING THAT OCTOBER MEETING, WE ARE PLANNING TO HAVE IT, UH, OFFSITE IF WE CAN.

UH, SO WE JUST WANT TO GIVE YOU THE, JUST A EARLY NOTIFICATION ON THAT, THAT, UH, WE WILL HOLD IT OFFSITE, UH, IF POSSIBLE.

AND, UH, WE'LL, WE'LL KEEP YOU POSTED ON WHEN WE GET ALL OF THOSE DETAILS TOGETHER.

UH, THAT CONCLUDES, UH, DIRECTOR'S REPORT.

AT THIS TIME, WE'LL NOW TAKE PUBLIC COMMENTS.

ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK REGARDING THE DIRECTOR'S REPORT, PLEASE LINE UP AT THE PODIUM IF THERE IS NONE.

DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS? VIRTUAL, IF YOU'RE JOINING US VIRTUALLY AND YOU WOULD LIKE TO PROVIDE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THE DIRECTOR'S REPORT, PLEASE USE THE RAISE HAND FUNCTION AT THIS TIME.

THERE APPEARS TO BE NO COMMENT ON THE DIRECTOR'S REPORT.

UH, MADAM CLERK, UH, PLEASE CALL FOR THE VOTE.

MOTION CARRIES.

RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FOR THE CULTURAL HERITAGE COMMISSION MEETING OF TUESDAY, JULY 30TH, 2024.

UH, ITEM NUMBER TWO,

[2. 24-54950 Recommendation to approve the minutes for the Cultural Heritage Commission meeting of Tuesday, July 30, 2024. Suggested Action: Approve recommendation. ]

MAY I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND? COMMISSIONERS, DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING THE MINUTES, ANY CORRECTIONS? IF THERE ARE NONE, UH, WE'LL NOW TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THE MINUTES FOR THE JULY 30TH.

ANYONE WOULD, WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THE COMMISSION AT THIS TIME, IF THERE ARE NONE, UH, VIRTUALLY.

IF YOU'RE JOINING US VIRTUALLY AND YOU WOULD LIKE TO PROVIDE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THE MINUTES, PLEASE USE THE RAISE HAND FUNCTION AT THIS TIME.

THERE APPEARS TO BE NO PUBLIC COMMENT ON THE MINUTES.

UM, AT THIS TIME, MADAM CLERK, PLEASE CALL FOR THE VOTE.

COMMISSIONER PRYOR AND PADILLA PEREZ.

IF YOU REVIEWED THE MINUTES IN THE PACKET THAT WAS SENT TO YOU, YOU CAN VOTE ON THE ITEM INSTEAD OF ABSTAINING.

NO.

CAN I STILL REMAIN ABSTAIN? AS LONG AS YOU REVIEWED THEM, YOU CAN VOTE YES OR NO.

IF YOU DID NOT REVIEW THEM, THEN WE CAN ABST THEM.

I'M ABSTAINING THEM.

ALRIGHT, MOTION CARRIES.

TO MAKE AN APPOINTMENT TO THE LONG

RECOMMENDATION

[3. 24-54292 Recommendation to make an appointment to the Long Beach Navy Memorial Heritage Trust (Navy Trust) Board of Trustees. Suggested Action: Approve recommendation. ]

[00:10:01]

BEACH NAVY MEMORIAL HERITAGE TRUST, UH, FOR A BOARD OF TRUSTEES.

MAY I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND PLEASE? I, AT THIS TIME, CAN WE HAVE STAFF PRESENTATION REGARDING THE NAVAL TRUST? ONCE AGAIN, SENIOR PLANNER.

SENIOR HISTORIC PLANNER.

MY APOLOGIES, ALEJANDRO PLACENCIA WILL GIVE STAFF PRESENTATION ON THIS ITEM.

GREAT, THANK YOU.

UM, SO THIS IS A, A CONTINUATION ITEM FROM, UH, THE LAST MEETING, UH, THE CULTURAL HERITAGE COMMISSION.

UH, THIS INVOLVES THE APPOINTMENT, UH, THIS COMMISSION, UH, TO THE NAVY TRUST.

UH, JUST AS A QUICK REMINDER, THE CULTURAL HERITAGE COMMISSION, UH, MAKES THREE APPOINTMENTS, UH, TO THE NAVY TRUST.

UH, THE, THE BOARD HAS, UH, MADE A RECOMMENDATION TO, OR A REQUEST, UH, TO REAPPOINT, UM, ROBERTA, JEANETTE, UH, TO THE BOARD, UH, STAFF IS CONCURRING WITH THAT.

UH, SO WE, UM, ARE LEAVING IT UP TO THE COMMISSION FOR THEIR FINAL DECISION HERE.

I THANK YOU, COMMISSIONERS.

ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING THIS PRESENTATION? IF THERE ARE NONE, I'LL NOW TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT.

ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, PLEASE LINE UP TO THE PODIUM.

YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, PLEASE? GOOD EVENING.

MY NAME IS CHERYL PERRY.

MY ADDRESS IS 3 5 1 MAGNOLIA.

I'M THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE LONG BEACH NAVY MEMORIAL HERITAGE ASSOCIATION, OR THE NAVY TRUST.

I'M HERE IN SUPPORT OF, OF, UH, REAPPOINTMENT OF ROBERTA.

JEANETTE, UH, TO OUR BOARD, LIKE THE COMMISSION, OUR BOARD IS MADE UP OF, UH, VERY OF INDIVIDUALS WITH VARIED BACKGROUNDS AND EXPERIENCE.

AND ROBERTA WITH HER KNOWLEDGE OF ARCHITECTURE AND OF THE CITY AND HER INTEREST IN PRESERVATION, SHE IS A PERFECT BOARD MEMBER, A PERFECT REPRESENTATIVE OF THE, UH, CHC.

AND SHE HAS SERVED, UM, SEVERAL YEARS AND DONE A MAGNIFICENT JOB FOR US.

UM, SHE GETS ALONG GREAT WITH ALL THE BOARD MEMBERS AND WITH ALL OF THE GRANTEES THAT SHE, THAT SHE WORKS WITH AND HAS WORKED ON OUR ANNUAL REPORT THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, WHICH WE REALLY APPRECIATED.

AND WE WOULD LOVE TO SEE HER CONTINUE, UM, AS A BOARD MEMBER.

SO WE WOULD APPRECIATE YOUR REAPPOINTMENT IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.

UH, MOST OF YOU KNOW WHAT THE NAVY TRUST IS.

IF THERE'S ANYONE THAT DOESN'T, I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS IF I CAN.

THANK YOU, MS. PERRY.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER FROM THE AUDIENCE THAT WOULD LIKE TO PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS ITEM? IF THERE ARE NONE, CAN WE ASK FOR VIRTUAL? IF YOU'RE JOINING US VIRTUALLY, WOULD YOU LIKE TO PROVIDE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS ITEM? PLEASE USE THE RAISE HAND FUNCTION AT THIS TIME.

THERE APPEARS TO BE NO FURTHER PUBLIC COMMENT BEFORE CALLING FOR THE VOTE.

ANY OTHER COMMISSIONERS WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THIS AGENDA ITEM? AND JUST TO CLARIFY, RIGHT NOW, THE MOTION THAT IS BEFORE THE COMMISSION IS TO APPOINT, BUT WE WOULD BE LOOKING FOR A SUBSTITUTE MOTION OR A FRIENDLY MOTION TO, TO IDENTIFY OR REVISE MOTION WHO YOU'RE INDICATING TO APPOINT.

'CAUSE YOU'RE, YOU'RE STARTING WITH THE RECOMMENDATION.

THE RECOMMENDATION, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THAT PERSON IDENTIFIED.

I I WOULD LIKE TO FILL IN THAT NAME.

UH, ROBERTA JEANETTE.

SO THERE'S BEEN A FRIENDLY MOTION, UM, TO APPOINT ROBERTA JEANETTE TO THE LONG BEACH NAVY MEMORIAL HERITAGE TRUST.

UM, IS THAT ACCEPTABLE TO THE MAKER OF THE MOTION, WHICH IS COMMISSIONER PADILLA? YES.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMISSION? IF THERE ARE NONE, MADAM CLERK, PLEASE CALL FOR THE VOTE.

MOTION CARRIES.

RECOMMENDATION TO APPROVE THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS AND ADOPT A PROPOSED FINDING AND CONDITIONS OF THE APPROVAL THERETO TO ALLOW 105 SQUARE FOOT ADDITION TO THE SIDE OF AN EXISTING SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENT, VISIBLE, VISIBLE FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY.

MOVING ON TO AGENDA ITEM NUMBER FOUR,

[4. 24-54951 Recommendation to approve a Certificate of Appropriateness and adopt the proposed findings and conditions of approval thereto, to allow a 105-square-foot addition to the side of an existing single-family residence, visible from the public right-of-way. The property, a historically contributing structure within Rose Park, is located at 792 Gladys Avenue in the R-2-N Zone. (District 2) Suggested Action: Approve recommendation. ]

[00:15:01]

THE PROPERTY A HISTORICALLY CONTRIBUTED STRUCTURE WITHIN THE ROSE PARK IS LOCATED ON 7 92 GLADYS AVENUE, AND IN THE R TWO N ZONE.

MAY HAVE A MOTION PLEASE.

AND A SECOND WE HAVE A MOTION FROM COMMISSIONER PIZZA AND A SECOND FROM COMMISSIONER PRYOR.

UM, THE EXISTING SIDE DOOR, UH, LEADS TO A DECK, UM, AND THAT'S GONNA BE REMOVED AND DEMOLISHED TO ACCOMMODATE THE PROPOSED ADDITION.

AT THIS TIME, CAN WE HAVE THE STAFF, UH, DO A PRESENTATION PLEASE? UH, PROJECT PLANNER AL WE'LL GIVE THE STAFF PRESENTATION ON THIS ITEM.

THANK YOU, ALEJANDRO.

UH, GOOD EVENING, VICE CHAIR AND FELLOWS OF THE COMMISSION.

UH, THE ITEM BEFORE YOU TONIGHT IS A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO ALLOW, UH, 105 SQUARE FOOT EDITION, UH, TO THE SIDE OF AN EXISTING SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING.

UM, LOCATED AT 7 92 GLADYS AVENUE.

UH, THIS IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE WITHIN THE ROSE PARK HISTORIC DISTRICT AND IS WITHIN THE R TWO N ZONE.

UM, YOU WOULD SEE THIS ON THE SLIDE HERE.

UM, THE PROPERTY'S APPROXIMATELY, UM, A LITTLE LESS THAN 200 FEET WEST OF ROSE PARK.

UM, IT'S ON THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF GLADYS AVENUE AND EAST EIGHTH EIGHTH STREET.

UM, A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON THE SITE.

UH, THE SITE IS APPROXIMATELY 4,430 SQUARE FEET.

UH, IT WAS DEVELOPED IN 1917 WITH A SINGLE FAMILY HOME, APPROXIMATELY 1,277 SQUARE FEET, UH, WITH A DETACHED GARAGE.

UM, THE DETACHED SINGLE CAR GARAGE, UH, WAS, UH, LATER MODIFIED IN 1923, UM, AND ENLARGED, UM, YOU WOULD FIND, UH, CRAFTSMAN STYLE ARCHITECTURE STYLE ON THE HOME AND ON THE GARAGE.

UM, LATER IN, UH, 1999, UH, THERE WAS A BAY WINDOW, UH, INSTALLED ON THE SIDE OF THE PROPERTY.

OH, I FORGOT TO MENTION, UM, IN 1921, NEW BREAKFAST ROOM, UM, CREATED FROM ENCLOSURE OF THE FRONT PORCH.

SO THESE ARE THE EXISTING SITE CONDITIONS OF THE FRONT OF THE MAIN RESIDENCE AS SEEN FROM GLADYS AVENUE.

UM, YOU WOULD SEE HORIZONTAL WOOD SIDING AROUND THE PERIMETER OF THE HOME.

WOODEN, UH, ENTRY DOORS.

YOU WOULD FIND DEEP ROOF EAVES WITH EXPOSED RAFTERS AND, AND WOODEN FACIA BOARDS.

UM, YOU HAVE WOLF TRIM, WOOD TRIM WITH EXTENDED LENTILS AROUND THE WINDOWS AND AROUND THE DOORS.

UM, AND THEN THE PORCH POSTS ARE ALSO CLAD WITH WOOD TRIM.

THE PICTURE IN THE CENTER, UM, AND ON THE RIGHT SHOW THE BREAKFAST ROOM THAT WAS ADDED IN 1921 UNDERNEATH THE, THE, UH, GABLE END, UM, FROM THE SPACE THAT WAS ORIGINALLY THE FRONT PORCH OVER THE REMAINDER OF THE FRONT PORCH, UH, AT TRELLIS REMAINS, UM, WITH EXPOSED BEING.

YOU SEE THAT ON THE PICTURE ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE, THOUGH NOT HIGHLY VISIBLE FROM THESE PICTURES.

THE ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS, UH, WERE CARRIED OVER ON THE SIDE.

UM, THE, THE WOOD SIDING, DEEP ROOF EVES EXPOSED RAFTERS.

THE WOODEN FACIA BOARDS, THE TRIM AROUND THE WINDOWS AND THE DOORS WERE ALL CONTINUED OVER TO THE SIDE.

UH, THE FENCING ALONG THIS ELEVATION, UM, SEEMS TO BE ABOVE THE MAXIMUM FENCING HEIGHT.

UH, WE DID INCLUDE A CONDITION OF APPROVAL, UH, SO THAT FENCE COULD COME DOWN TO THE APPROPRIATE HEIGHT, ABOUT SIX FEET, SIX INCHES.

THE SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON OF THE EXISTING AND THE PROPOSED SITE PLAN SHOW THE PROPOSED EDITION WHILE UNDER 250 SQUARE FEET.

THE PROPOSED EDITION IS HIGHLY VISIBLE FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY ON EAST EIGHTH STREET.

UM, THIS WARRANTS COMMISSION APPROVAL.

THE ADDITION WOULD LENGTHEN THE EXISTING CROSS GABLE NORTHWARD WORD.

THE, UH, ADDITION WILL COMPLY WITH THE FOUR FOOT SIDE YARD SETBACK, UM, TO THE FACE OF THE WALL AND TWO FOOT SIX INCH SIDE YARD SETBACK TO THE ROOF.

EVES THE EXISTING AND PROPOSED FLOOR PLANS OFFER A GREATER EXPLANATION OF THE PROPOSED EDITION.

UH, THE 105 SQUARE FOOT EDITION WOULD ENLARGE THE EXISTING BEDROOM.

UM, AND IT WOULD ALSO ENLARGE THE EXISTING BATHROOM ON THE INTERIOR.

THE EXISTING TWO FOOT BULB BELT, UH, THAT ENCOMPASSES THAT BATHROOM.

AND THAT BATHROOM, UH, IT'S GONNA BE ENLARGED BY APPROXIMATELY, UH, THE MEASUREMENT HERE, FIVE FOOT NINE INCHES.

[00:20:01]

THERE ARE THREE NEW WINDOWS PROPOSED.

UH, ONE IS FACING GLADYS AVENUE AND TWO ARE FACING EIGHTH STREET.

UH, THE TWO ON THE EIGHTH STREET ARE, UH, UH, DESIGNED IN A SYMMETRICAL FASHION, AND THE EXISTING DOOR TO THE SIDE IS GONNA BE RELOCATED.

SO IT'S NO LONGER GONNA FACE EAST EIGHTH STREET.

IT'S GONNA FACE THE, THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY .

COMPARING THE EXISTING AND THE PROPOSED SOUTH ELEVATIONS, YOU WILL SEE NO CHANGE.

UH, THE BOTTOM TWO ELEVATIONS SHOW THE EASTERN ELEVATIONS.

UM, AND THIS IS WHERE YOU WOULD SEE THAT EXISTING TWO FOOT, UH, BUMP OUT.

AND IT'S GONNA BE LENGTHENED BY THE FIVE FEET, NINE INCHES TO ACCOMMODATE THAT NEW DOOR THAT WOULD LEAD TO THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY.

THE NORTHERN ELEVATIONS.

IN ON THE TOP OF THE SLIDE IS WHERE YOU SEE A LOT OF THE ARCHITECTURAL CHANGE.

UM, THE, CURRENTLY, THERE'S A SMALL HUNG WINDOW AND YOU WOULD SEE, UH, AN EXISTING, UH, PEDESTRIAN DOOR WITH THE SIDE LIGHTS.

UM, THIS LEADS TO THAT, UH, RAISED DECK ON THE SIDE YARD, PROPERTY LINE, OR SORRY, TO THE SIDE YARD, PROPERTY LINE.

THE ADDITION WOULD, LIKE I MENTIONED BEFORE, WOULD BE RELOCATED TO FACE TO THE REAR.

AND IN, IN ITS PLACE YOU WOULD SEE THOSE TWO HUNG WINDOWS THAT YOU SEE ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, THE WOOD SIDING, THE WOOD TRIM, THE EXPOSED RAFTERS, THE WOOD FACIA BOARDS, UH, WILL ALL BE INCLUDED INTO THE PROPOSED EDITION.

UM, HOWEVER, UM, INSTEAD OF, UH, CONTINUING THE DEEP ROOF EVES LIKE YOU WOULD SEE ON THE REST OF THE PROPERTY, UH, THEY WILL PROPOSE A SHORTER ROOF EVES COMPLIANT WITH A CIED SETBACK.

THE HOUSE HAS VARYING HEIGHTS.

UH, THERE'S, UH, HEIGHT MEASUREMENT TO 12 FEET, 10 INCHES, 13 FOOT FIVE INCHES, AND 14 FOOT NINE INCHES.

THESE ARE ALL MEASURED TO THE ROOF PITCH.

THE PROPOSED ADDITION WILL EXTEND THE EXISTING, UH, CROSS GABLE.

UM, AND THIS PORTION IS ABOUT 13 FEET, FIVE INCHES.

UM, NO INCREASE HEIGHT.

UH, SO PUBLIC NOTICES WERE MAILED OUT AND BULLETINS WERE POSTED ON SITE.

UM, AS OF AS OF THIS DATE, STAFF RECEIVED ONE FORMAL LETTER, UM, RECEIVED VIA EMAIL FROM REPRESENTATIVES OF THE ROSE PARK HISTORIC DISTRICT.

UM, BUT AS PROPOSED AND CONDITION, THE PROPOSED PROJECT WILL NOT DETRACT FROM THE HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD OR THE HISTORIC CHARACTER OF THE EXISTING BUILDING.

THE PROPOSED WILL BE CONSISTENT AND IN AND IN FULL COMPLIANCE WITH RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS OF THE R TWO N ZONE, THE ROSE PARK HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES, THE ROSE PARK HISTORIC DISTRICT ORDINANCE, SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, UH, AND THE CRAFTSMAN STYLE GUIDE, UM, ALONG WITH THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FINDINGS WITH THE AFFIRMATION FINDINGS IN THE AFFIRMATIVE STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS SUBJECT TO CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL.

AND I BELIEVE THE APPLICANT MAY BE, UH, ATTENDING THIS MEETING VIRTUALLY.

IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR REPORT.

AT THIS TIME.

ARE THERE ANY COMMISSIONERS THAT WOULD LIKE TO QUESTION THE PROJECT IF THEY HAD ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE STAFF? YES, THIS IS COMMISSIONER PIZZA.

UM, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING THE WINDOWS.

IN THE SPECIAL CONDITIONS, IT SAYS THAT THE WINDOWS, UM, TO THE ADDITION SHALL ONLY BE WOOD, UH, WINDOWS.

HOWEVER, IN THE LEGEND IT TALKS ABOUT, UM, ALUMINUM COATED WINDOWS, AND THEN IT TALKS ABOUT REMOVING NON-COMPLIANT ALUMINUM WINDOWS.

SO CAN YOU ADDRESS THAT, PLEASE? YEAH, CERTAINLY.

UM, SO WE DON'T HAVE RECORD OF THE INSTALLATION OF THE ALUMINUM WINDOWS.

WE BELIEVE, UH, THAT WOOD WINDOWS WERE THE ORIGINAL, UM, UH, TYPES OF WINDOWS THAT WERE INSTALLED IN THE DWELLING.

AT SOME POINT, THERE WERE, UH, REPLACED WITH ALUMINUM CLA WINDOWS.

UM, WE BELIEVE IT MAY HAVE BEEN DONE WHEN THE BAY WINDOW WAS INSTALLED.

UM, SO WHAT WE'RE DOING AND WHAT WE REQUIRED IN THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL WAS THAT THE NEW WINDOWS BE INSTALLED AS WOOD MATERIAL.

AND THEN IN THE EVENT THAT THE, UH, REST OF THE PROPERTY GETS RETROFITTED, UH, THEY REINTRODUCE WOOD MATERIAL AROUND THE WINDOWS.

SO ON THE NEW WINDOWS FOR THE ADDITION, THOSE WILL BE WOOD.

OH, ALL WOOD? CORRECT.

REQUIRED TO BE POSTED ON THE PLANS.

BECAUSE IT SAYS ALUMINUM COATED ON THE LEGEND OF THE DRAWINGS, SO RIGHT.

I JUST WANNA POINT THAT OUT.

YES, THANK YOU.

SO THE CONDITION OF APPROVAL WOULD BE

[00:25:01]

THIS WILL BE SUBMITTED TO BUILDING AND SAFETY, AND THAT'S WHERE WE WOULD CHECK TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY COMPLY.

I HAVE MORE QUESTIONS, SORRY.

UM, SO ON THE, UM, I THINK THE WEST ELEVATION, UM, ON THE ADDITIONAL WINDOW THAT FACES GLADYS, UM, IT'S SHOWING EITHER AS A CASEMENT OR A SLIDER.

UM, AND AS A NEW WINDOW, THAT SEEMS ODD FOR A CRAFTSMAN HOME, ESPECIALLY FACING THE FRONT OF THE HOME.

SO ON THE LEGEND, IT CALLS IT HUNG.

SO I'M JUST CURIOUS, IS IT REALLY HUNG AND DRAWN INCORRECTLY, OR IS IT A SLIDER OR A CASEMENT WINDOW? YEAH, THERE MAY BE SOME DISCREPANCIES, UH, BUT, UH, WE AGREE IT SHOULD BE HUNG AND WE WOULD MAKE SURE THAT THE REPLACEMENT WINDOW WOULD BE HUNG.

AND THEN ONE LAST THING, , UM, ON THE FRONT ELEVATION, AGAIN, WEST FACING GLADYS, UM, IN, IN THE REALITY WHICH YOU COULD SEE IN THE PHOTO, THE WINDOW TO THE, LET'S CALL IT THE FACING THE HOUSE TO THE LEFT OF THE DOOR HAS SOME DETAIL AT THE TOP, SORT OF A FRET WORK, UH, WHICH IS VERY REMINISCENT OF CRAFTSMAN HOMES AND ACTUALLY OF THE CRAFTSMAN HOMES NEXT TO THIS HOME AND GOING DOWN THE STREET.

UM, HOWEVER, THE LARGE ONE TO THE RIGHT DOESN'T HAVE THAT ON MANY OF THE OTHER HOMES.

IT'S CONSISTENT ON IF IT, IF ONE HAD IT, THE OTHER ONE DOES HAVE IT AS WELL.

I'M CURIOUS, HAS THAT BEEN ADDRESSED IN ANY WAY OR, UM, DISCUSSED ABOUT THAT SPECIAL, UM, DETAIL? THANK YOU.

UH, COMMISSIONER PETE, UH, JUST TO CLARIFY, SO I'M LOOKING AT THE, THE PROPOSED, UH, WEST ELEVATION THERE, UH, THERE'S THE TWO WINDOWS TO EITHER SIDE OF THE DOOR, IS THAT RIGHT? CORRECT.

UM, SO IS THE QUESTION JUST ABOUT, UH, THE MATERIALS OR WHY IT DOESN'T MATCH, UH, THE, UH, THE EXISTING CONDITIONS, OR IF YOU GO TO THE PHOTOGRAPH OF THE FRONT OF THE HOME, THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE MORE EXPLAN OR EASIER TO EXPLAIN WHAT I'M KIND OF REFERRING TO.

THERE YOU GO.

SO THIS WHOOP .

OKAY, THERE YOU GO.

SO THE VIEW FROM GLADYS AVENUE IN THE CENTER PHOTO, YOU SEE THE, THE WINDOW TO THE LEFT HAS THE DETAIL AT THE TOP, AND THE ONE LARGE WINDOW DOES NOT.

AND I'M JUST WONDERING IF THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE OR THAT WINDOW GOT CHANGED AND THAT OMITTED, OR WHAT, WHAT'S THE SITUATION? YEAH, SO I THINK, UM, SO THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS HERE.

I MEAN, I THINK, UH, WHEN WE TOOK THIS PROJECT, UH, OR TO TO COMMISSION, UH, THERE WERE THINGS THAT, UH, WE DID PLAN TO CONDITION.

SO THERE ARE SOME DISCREPANCIES THAT, THAT YOU WON THAT, YOU KNOW, DON'T MATCH THE EXISTING CONDITIONS.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE THE, THE DETAILING ON THAT LEFT, UH, WINDOW THERE.

UM, BUT YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK THE IDEA IS IS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, IT IS A SMALL PROJECT.

UH, AND SO TYPICALLY JUST AS A, A POLICY, WE WOULD TYPICALLY REQUIRE REPLACEMENT OF ALL WINDOWS ON A MUCH LARGER PROJECT.

BUT GIVEN THE SCALE OF THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT, UH, SEEN, WE, WE BELIEVED IT WAS REASONABLE TO JUST, UH, REQUEST, UH, THE, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT THE WOOD, THAT THE WOOD WINDOWS ONLY BE IN THE ADDITION.

NOW THE, THE MORE ORNAMENTAL SMALLER WINDOW THAT'S, UH, FRONT FACING, WE DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS, UM, ORIGINAL THERE OR NOT.

AND IF IT WAS LIKE THAT AND THEY DECIDED TO REPLICATE IT IN THE, IN THE, UM, NEWER ALUMINUM WINDOW.

UM, BUT RIGHT NOW WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THERE IS A, AN ALUMINUM WINDOW, UH, WITH SOME DETAILING UP ABOVE.

SO AAND, JUST TO BE CLEAR THAT YOU'RE THINKING THAT THE, THE RIGHT WINDOW WAS, IS AN ALUMINUM WINDOW, WHICH ONE IS ALUMINUM? OR, I'M SORRY, OR THE ONE WITH THE DETAIL? THE ONE WITH THE DETAIL.

OH, OKAY.

THAT'S THE ALUMINUM ONE.

AND THE LARGER ONE, NOT A HUNDRED PERCENT SURE IT WAS.

UM, GOTCHA.

BUT YEAH, WE BELIEVE IT'S JUST GLASS.

WE, I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S ALUMINUM THERE.

WELL, I MEAN, THERE ARE DIFFERENT SIZE WINDOWS IN THERE AT DIFFERENT SORT OF PLANES ON THE HOME, SO IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, THE MOST EGREGIOUS THING.

BUT I WAS JUST COMMENTING OR QUESTIONING, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE OTHER HOMES ON THAT STREET DO HAVE A CONSISTENCY WHEN THAT DE IT'S ACTUALLY THE SAME DETAIL PRACTICALLY.

UM, AND SO I WAS JUST CURIOUS WHY THIS HOUSE ONLY HAS THIS, THIS ONE LONE WINDOW WITH THIS DETAIL.

SO THANK YOU.

IT, IT COULD ALSO BE BECAUSE THE LARGER WINDOW WITHOUT THE DETAIL IS THE BREAKFAST ROOM THAT WAS ADDED AFTER THE ORIGINAL HOME.

SO THEY PROBABLY DIDN'T INCLUDE THAT, UM, ARCHITECTURAL A ELEMENT WHEN THEY, UM, SEALED OFF OR ENCLOSED THAT PATIO

[00:30:02]

SENSE.

THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER PIEL.

ANYONE ELSE FROM THE COMMISSION WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THE STAFF ON THIS ITEM? IF THERE ARE NONE, WE'LL NOW OPEN UP TO PUBLIC COMMENT.

ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, PLEASE LINE UP TO THE MICROPHONE BEFORE WE OPEN UP FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.

COMMISSIONER IGU, CAN WE GIVE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE APPLICANT TO SPEAK YES AT THIS TIME? UH, IF THE APPLICANT, UM, ZOOMING IN VIRTUALLY, YES, THE APPLICANT IS JOINING US VIRTUALLY.

ERIC, YOU HAVE BEEN UNMUTED.

PLEASE UNMUTE YOURSELF ON YOUR END.

ERIC, PLEASE GO AHEAD AND UNMUTE YOURSELF ON YOUR END.

HELLO EVERYONE.

GOOD AFTERNOON.

SORRY ABOUT THAT.

I WAS HAVING SOME TECHNICAL ISSUES ON MY END.

PLEASE PROCEED REGARDING THE PROJECT ITSELF.

UM, THERE'S NO ADDITIONAL COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS.

UM, THIS IS A PROJECT WE'VE BEEN, UH, WORKING WITH A CLIENT FOR, UM, FOR QUITE A WHILE.

SO, UM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE CERTAINLY LOOKING FORWARD TO AN APPROVAL, BUT EVERYTHING THAT WAS COVERED DURING THE CONVERSATION AND THE, UH, POWERPOINT REALLY COVERS EVERYTHING.

UM, YOU KNOW, REGARDING THE WINDOWS ITSELF, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN DEFINITELY, UH, CLARIFY ON THE PLAN.

BUT, UM, BUT EVERYTHING IS IN ALIGNMENT BASED ON THE, UM, BASED ON THE, UH, THE SLIDESHOW THAT WAS PRESENTED TODAY.

AT THIS TIME, WE WOULD LIKE TO OPEN UP TO PUBLIC COMMENT.

IF ANYONE WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THIS PARTICULAR ITEM, PLEASE STEP UP TO THE PODIUM.

IF THERE ARE NONE, CAN WE HAVE A REQUEST FOR OUR VIRTUAL AUDIENCE IF THEY WOULD BE MAKING A COMMENT ON THIS PARTICULAR ITEM? IF YOU'RE JOINING US VIRTUALLY AND YOU'D LIKE TO PROVIDE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS ITEM ITEM, PLEASE USE THE RAISE HAND FUNCTION AT THIS TIME.

THERE APPEARS TO BE NO FURTHER PUBLIC COMMENT.

AT THIS TIME, BEFORE I CALL FOR THE VOTE, IS THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION? I JUST HAVE ONE QUICK ONE, SORRY.

COMMISSIONER PIZZA.

UM, THE SITUATION WITH THAT DOUBLE HUNG VERSUS THE CASE MAY THINK THAT'S ADDRESSED.

I DON'T HAVE TO DO A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO MY OWN, TO THE ORIGINAL MOTION, OR HOW IS THAT, HOW DO YOU WANNA HANDLE THAT? CAN, SORRY, CAN THAT BE A CONDITION OR, OR TO CORRECT THE DRAWING? SO YOU ARE THE MAKER OF OUR MOTION, WHICH IS WONDERFUL.

SO WHAT YOU CAN DO IS SUGGEST A REVISED MOTION.

I'M HEARING FROM THE STAFF TABLE THAT IT MIGHT BE BENEFICIAL TO HAVE THAT CLARITY PROVIDED EITHER THROUGH A CONDITION OR ON THE PLANS THEMSELVES.

SO IF YOU'D LIKE TO PROVIDE THAT, UM, REVISION TO YOUR MOTION, THAT CAN BE BEFORE THE COMMISSION.

GREAT, THANK YOU.

SO I WOULD LIKE TO MOVE TO, UM, REVISE THE ELEVATION, DRAWING ON, UM, SHEET A NINE, UH, ELEVATION FOUR TO REPRESENT A DOUBLE HUNG WINDOW AS OPPOSED TO A, UH, CASEMENT THAT'S, UH, DEPICTED.

IS THAT STAFF, IS THAT CLEAR FOR YOU ALL? WONDERFUL.

SO WE HAVE, UM, THAT REVISION TO THE MOTION, OUR MAKER OF THE MOTION WAS COMMISSIONER PIZZA.

COMMISSIONER PRYOR.

IS THAT ACCEPTABLE? YES.

THE NEW ATTIC DORMERS MATCH THE EXISTING ONES BE PAINTED TO MATCH THE EXISTING ONES SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE BRIGHT SILVER DORMERS.

ARE THERE ANY ADDITIONAL COMMENTS FROM THE COMMISSION AT THIS TIME? YES, COMM COMMISSIONER GROFF, I'D LIKE TO SUGGEST, UH, SUGGEST THE POSSIBILITY OF, UM, UH, THREE OTHER, UH, FRIENDLY AMENDMENTS IN ADDITION TO, UH, COMMISSIONER ZOS.

ONE OF THEM WAS, UM, THE DRAWINGS DON'T SHOW THE RAFTER TAILS IN THE ADDITION THAT WERE, THAT EXIST IN THE REST OF THE HOUSE.

SO, UM, I LIKE TO OPEN THAT UP FOR DISCUSSION.

ANOTHER THING WAS I WANTED TO SPECIFY THAT, UM,

[00:35:01]

UM, AND THEN THE THIRD THING WAS, UM, A CONCERN ABOUT THE, THE DOWNSPOUTS.

DOWNSPOUTS DON'T EXIST ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE HOUSE, BUT EXCEPT FOR THIS, UH, ADDITION.

AND, UM, SO MY, YOU KNOW, WHILE, WHILE, WHILE I UNDERSTAND THE VALUE OF DOWNSPOUTS AND I WOULD LIKE THEM, AND, AND I DON'T MIND THEM BEING THERE TO PROTECT THE HOUSE, I, THEY AREN'T THERE ANYWHERE ELSE.

SO I THINK WE NEED TO, UM, MAYBE TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION.

I DON'T KNOW IF WE NEED TO HAVE, ASK THEM TO ELIMINATE THOSE OR MAKE A, OR, OR SUGGEST A MATERIAL THAT IS, UM, CONSISTENT WITH SORT OF THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE TIME.

UM, SO I THINK WE UNDERSTOOD, UM, LEMME, I'M JUST GONNA SUMMARIZE HERE TO JUST MAKE SURE THAT THE STAFF HAS THIS CORRECT.

UM, SO THE DRAWINGS, UH, NEED TO SHOW THE RAFTERS THAT'S, THAT WAS NUMBER ONE, CORRECT? NOT, THEY'RE NOT CURRENTLY DRAWN ON THERE, RIGHT? THE RAFTER TAILS ARE NOT SHOWN ON THE ELEVATIONS.

AND THE SECOND ONE WAS THE DORMERS, UH, SHOULD BE PAINTED TO MATCH THE EXISTING ONE TO AVOID, UH, NOT HAVING THEM AND JUST BE LIKE ALL METALLIC.

IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.

AND THEN THE LAST ONE WAS JUST ABOUT THE DOWNSPOUTS.

UH, NOT CURRENTLY, UM, SHOWN ON THE BUILDING.

UM, SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK FROM STAFF'S POSITION, UH, YOU KNOW, WE, IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT IS SOMETHING THAT'S MEANT TO, TO PROTECT THE BUILDING.

UM, THERE ARE WAYS TO TREAT IT, UM, YOU KNOW, USUALLY TO JUST TO PAINT IT, UH, IS USUALLY THE, THE GENERAL RULE OF THUMB.

UM, I THINK IT'S MAYBE ONE OF THE VERY SMALLER DETAILS THAT WE DID NOT GET INTO WITH, UH, THE APPLICANTS.

UH, BUT, YOU KNOW, INSTEAD OF, YOU KNOW, MIXING THEM ALL TOGETHER, I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S A GOOD THING TO HAVE THOSE.

UH, SO MAYBE WHAT STAFF COULD DO IS, UH, HAVE A, A DISCUSSION WITH THE APPLICANT TO SEE IF THERE'S A, IF IT'S BEEN THOUGHT OUT YET, UM, TO, YOU KNOW, HAVE A SYSTEM THAT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE FULLY DETAILED FOR THE REST OF THE HOUSE.

THAT SOUNDS THAT THAT ALL WORKS.

SO ARE YOU NO LONGER SEEKING TO ASSERT THE FRIENDLY MOTION? UM, SO I, I, IF I AM UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY, PROBABLY TWO OF THE THREE MOTIONS NEED TO TO BE ADDED.

THE FRIENDLY MOTIONS NEED TO BE ADDED AND THAT THE, IS THE, UM, THE, UM, RAFTER TAILS AND THE DORMERS BE PAINTED, AND THEN STAFF WILL HANDLE THE DOWNSPOUTS.

UM, THERE'S BEEN A FRIENDLY MOTION COMMISSIONER PIZZA.

IS THAT ACCEPTABLE? THAT IS ACCEPTABLE.

AND COMMISSIONER PRYOR? YEAH, JUST A QUICK QUESTION ON THE DOWNSPOUTS.

DOES THAT HOLD UP THE PROJECT OR HOW DOES THAT, WHAT IS THE IMPLICATION? NO, THAT'S, THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.

UH, IT DOES NOT.

SO, UH, THE WAY THE PROCESS WORKS IS, UM, THE, UH, THE APPLICANTS WILL COME IN, UH, FOR THE COMMISSION'S APPROVAL.

UH, ONCE THE COMMISSION, UH, HAS GRANTED APPROVAL, THE, THE DESIGNER OR THE ARCHITECT OF RECORD WILL TYPICALLY GO BACK AND COMPLETE MORE CONSTRUCTION DRAWINGS, WHICH WILL SHOW ALL OF THE MORE SPECIFIC DETAILS LIKE FRAMING, FOUNDATION AND OTHER THINGS.

UH, SO THERE IS SOME TIME, UH, FOR STAFF AND THE APPLICANT TO, TO BE ABLE TO RESOLVE THAT, WHICH WOULD BE WITHIN THE NORMAL TIMEFRAME FOR, FOR A PROJECT.

THEN TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, YES, I AGREE.

THANK YOU, COMMISSIONER.

THANK YOU FOR THAT COMMENT.

IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THIS PARTICULAR PROJECT FROM THE COMMISSION? IF NOT, MADAM CLERK, CAN WE CALL FOR THE VOTE ON THE AMENDED OF THIS MOTION? MOTION CARRIES.

RECOMMENDATION TO RECEIVE AND FILE A TRAINING REGARDING CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, INCLUDING THE DUTIES ROLE OF THE CULTURAL HERITAGE COMMISSION, UNDERSTANDING THE HISTORIC RESOURCE PROJECT EVALUATION AND MAKING FINDINGS RELATED THERETO.

ITEM NUMBER FIVE,

[5. 24-54952 Recommendation to receive and file a training regarding certificates of appropriateness, including the duties and role of Cultural Heritage Commissioners, understanding the historic resource, project evaluation, and making findings related thereto. Suggested Action: Approve recommendation. ]

UH, MAY I HAVE A MOTION TO HEAR THIS ITEM? AND A SECOND PLEASE? THANK YOU.

[00:40:01]

AT THIS TIME, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE STAFF PRESENT THE, THEIR REPORT, UH, VICE CHAIRMAN MC GUANO.

I'LL JUST, UH, I'LL JUST GIVE A FEW WORDS HERE TO, TO KIND OF FRAME IT.

UM, SO WE HAD, UH, ONE, UH, TRAINING HERE WITH THE COMMISSION.

UH, WE FIND THAT IT'S VERY HELPFUL TO HAVE THESE TYPES OF TRAININGS FOR THE COMMISSION TO REALLY KIND OF, UH, DIG INTO THE WEEDS ON PARTICULAR PROJECTS, UNDERSTAND WHAT AN HISTORIC RESOURCE IS, HOW TO EVALUATE THE PROJECT, UH, AND WHAT THAT MEANS FOR, FOR YOU AS COMMISSIONERS AND YOUR ROLE THAT YOU HAVE HERE.

UM, TO REALLY KIND OF JUST COMPLETE, UH, A PROJECT.

GONNA DO A COMPLETE, UH, PROJECT ANALYSIS AS COMMISSIONERS.

UH, SO TONIGHT, UH, WE HAVE A PAGE IN TURNBULL, UH, THE CONSULTING COMPANY THAT WILL DO THE PRESENTATION.

UM, AND I WILL, UM, HAND THIS OVER TO, UH, PAIGE AND TURNBULL, AND I'M GONNA HAND THIS OVER TO THEM AS WELL.

GO, WHICH IS, UH, JUST ARROW.

OKAY, GREAT.

OH, IT GOES UP IN THERE.

LEMME KNOW.

YEAH, WE MAY MOVE IT.

UH, GOOD EVENING COMMISSIONERS.

SO, GOOD EVENING.

UM, FLORA AND I ARE HERE TO, UH, SAID, DO TRAINING.

SO I'M GONNA GIVE A LITTLE INTRODUCTION.

SO, SO TWO, TWO OTHER STAFF MEMBERS OF PAIGE AND TURNBULL GAVE TRAINING ON HISTORIC PRESERVATION FUNDAMENTALS, WHAT, SIX MONTHS AGO? THREE MONTHS AGO? THREE MONTHS AGO, SEEMS LIKE LONGER.

UM, AND FLORA AND I WERE AWAY.

SO NORMALLY WE DO THE TRAINING.

UM, SO A LITTLE BACKGROUND ON MYSELF.

I'M A HISTORIC ARCHITECT, AN ARCHITECT THAT WORKS ON, UM, PRETTY MUCH EXCLUSIVELY HISTORIC BUILDINGS OR IN HISTORIC CONTEXT.

I'VE BEEN DOING THAT FOR 30 YEARS.

UH, THIS IS MY 20TH YEAR WITH PAGE AND TURNBULL.

I TEACH, UH, IN THE HERITAGE CONSERVATION PROGRAM AT USC.

SO I TEACH A COURSE FOR 10 YEARS.

I'VE BEEN TEACHING A COURSE ON SUSTAINABILITY AND HISTORIC PRESERVATION AND HOW THEY INTERFACE.

UH, PRIOR TO THAT, I TAUGHT HISTORIC DOCUMENTATIONS OF BOTH KIND OF DRAWINGS AND DOING NOMINATIONS AND REPORTS.

I, UM, LIVE IN SOUTH PASADENA, AND I'VE SPENT 10 YEARS ON THEIR CULTURAL HERITAGE COMMISSION.

I SPENT SIX YEARS AS A PLANNING COMMISSIONER, UM, MANY OF THAT, MUCH OF THAT DURING COVID, WHICH IS A INTERESTING EXPERIENCE.

SO I, UM, UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE RELEVANT THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON NOW.

UH, I HAVE A FELLOW IN THE ASSOCIATION FOR PRESERVATION TECHNOLOGY, WHICH IS A, A KIND OF AN INDUSTRY GROUP FOR HISTORIC ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS AND MATERIALS CONSERVATION PEOPLE.

UM, AND CURRENTLY I AM INVOLVED WITH A GROUP CALLED PRESERVATION ACTION, WHICH LOBBIES CONGRESS FOR FUNDING, UH, FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION AT A FEDERAL LEVEL.

UM, SO, SO HISTORIC PRESERVATION IS BOTH A JOB AND A HOBBY.

UH, IT'S KIND OF WHAT I DO MOST OF THE TIME.

I'LL LET FLORA INTRODUCE HERSELF.

MY NAME'S FLORA CHU.

I'M AN ASSOCIATE PRINCIPAL AT PAGE TURNBULL, UH, AND WHERE JOHN IS AN ARCHITECT.

I AM ON THE ARCHITECTURAL HISTORY SIDE.

SO MY BACKGROUND IS IN, UM, ARCHITECTURAL HISTORY AND PRESERVATION PLANNING.

I'VE BEEN WITH PATIENT TURMOIL FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS NOW, UM, HERE IN OUR LOS ANGELES OFFICE.

AND PRIOR TO THAT, I WAS WITH A LOS ANGELES CONSERVANCY.

SO COMING IN WITH SOME OF THE, UH, ADVOCACY BACKGROUND AS WELL.

UH, AND AS WE CONTINUE TO LOOK FORWARD, EVEN SOME OF THOSE POSTMODERN RESOURCES ARE STARTING TO COME UP, AND WE'RE STARTING TO THINK ABOUT HOW TO DEAL WITH THOSE.

UM, WE'RE REALLY EXCITED TO BE HERE TODAY TO SORT OF CONTINUE ALL THIS TRAINING.

UH, WE'LL BE, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HAVE ABOUT AN HOUR OR SO, UH, WITH A BREAK, AND THEN MAYBE SOME, HOPEFULLY SOME TIME WITH AFTER THAT TOO, TO CONTINUE, UH, WITH A GOOD AMOUNT OF INFORMATION TO CONVEY.

NOW I'LL ENCOURAGE YOU TO INTERRUPT US AND ASK QUESTIONS.

IT'S, UH, OKAY FOR THIS TO BE INTERACTIVE.

SO, UM, I'M GONNA GO OVER TRAINING OBJECTIVES.

ON THE NEXT SLIDE.

WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THE DUTY, THE KIND OF FORMAL DUTIES OF THE CULTURAL HERITAGE COMMISSION AND ITS ROLE IN THE CITY.

UH, THEN WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS AND REALLY GETTING TO FINDINGS, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE THE, WHAT ARE THE STEPS INVOLVED? WHAT ARE THE QUESTIONS? WHAT ARE THE UNDERLYING ISSUES? I KNOW YOU'VE BEEN, UM, DOING THAT FOR A WHILE.

UH, WE HAVE A LITTLE ACTIVITY, AND THEN WE'LL DO A SUMMARY, AND THEN WE'RE GONNA COME BACK.

SO THIS IS ONE OF TWO.

SO WE'RE ACTUALLY, UH, THINK ABOUT OTHER THINGS THAT YOU WANT US TO TALK ABOUT, AND WE CAN SET THE AGENDA FOR, UM, A

[00:45:01]

SEPARATE, UH, TRAINING, UM, AFTER THIS.

SO, SOME OF THE OBJECTIVES TO UNDERSTAND THE CULTURAL HERITAGE COMMISSION'S ROLE AUTHORITY, UH, AND PLACE IN THE WHOLE CITY PROCESS.

UM, REALLY THINKING, YOU KNOW, BIG PICTURE.

SO BEING ABLE TO BALANCE HISTORIC, UH, PRESERVATION WITH OTHER PROJECT GOALS.

UM, RECOGNIZE KIND OF WHAT I CALL, WHAT WE CALL MUSTS.

SO THINGS THAT ARE REQUIRED AND SHOULD, SO THINGS THAT WE'D LIKE TO SEE, BUT, UH, MAY NOT BE MANDATORY.

AND, UM, THERE'S A, THERE'S A FELLOW IN MY OFFICE WHO I'VE KNOWN FOR A LONG TIME, AND HE ALWAYS SAYS THAT, YOU KNOW, HISTORIC PRESERVATION PROJECTS ARE OFTEN ABOUT COMPROMISE AND MAKING DECISIONS.

SO THINKING ABOUT WHERE ARE THE PLACES YOU'RE WILLING TO COMPROMISE? WHERE ARE THE PLACES YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO COMPROMISE? UM, LEARN ABOUT THE RANGE OF ACCEPTABLE PRESERVATION APPROACHES.

I WAS TALKING ABOUT THIS EARLIER.

THERE IS A RANGE AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE.

UM, AND, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES THINGS ARE THE RIGHT APPROACH AND SOMETIMES THEY AREN'T.

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, REALLY FEELING EMPOWERED TO ASK QUESTIONS.

UH, TRY TO NEGOTIATE THOSE TRADE-OFFS SO YOU CAN GET TO A YES, UH, VOTE FOR PROJECTS.

UM, I'LL LEAVE IT AT THAT.

SO, UH, CHC, UH, DUTIES AND ROLE IN THE CITY.

OOPS, THAT WENT BY REALLY FAST.

SO THERE ARE 10 THINGS.

THIS IS FROM YOUR ORDINANCE, AND IT'S INTENDED TO BE SMALL.

UM, SO 10 THINGS IN THE ORDINANCE THAT REALLY ARE YOUR POWERS AND DUTIES, KIND OF, YOU'RE, YOU'RE AUTHORIZED THROUGH THE PASSAGE OF THIS ORDINANCE, UH, TO, UM, WELL, YOU'RE REQUIRED TO DO THESE THINGS, REALLY.

UM, BUT OF THEM, THERE'S TWO THAT ARE IMPORTANT.

SO I, I WAS HOPING YOU COULD TELL ME WHAT ARE, WHAT ARE THE TWO PRIMARY THINGS THAT YOU DO AS A COMMISSION? I CAN, BUT YOU SHOULD KNOW, YOU JUST DID ONE OF THEM.

I DON'T WANNA PUT IT PEOPLE ON THE SPOT.

SO, UM, SO YOU'RE GONNA RECOMMEND DESIGNATION, RIGHT? OF LANDMARKS AND LANDMARK DISTRICTS.

SO THAT'S ONE OF THE REALLY IMPORTANT THINGS THAT YOU DO.

AND THEN THE SECOND IS TO REVIEW, YOU KNOW, PROJECT, PROJECT APPLICATIONS.

SO MODIFICATIONS TO HISTORIC RESOURCES, UH, AND THEN ISSUE OR DENY A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.

MAKES SENSE.

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, CITIES, IT SEEMS LIKE LONG BEACH THAT HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, ACTIVE CITIZENS HAVE LOTS OF COMMISSIONS, SO YOU'RE ONE OF MANY, UM, AND YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, VERY DISTINCT PRIORITIES, BUT, YOU KNOW, UNDERSTAND THAT THERE'S OTHER THINGS GOING ON, AND THAT YOU PLAY A PART IN THOSE AS WELL.

SO A LOT OF YOUR ROLES AND DUTIES ARE ABOUT ADVISING ON OTHER PARTS OF, OF THE CITY AND WHAT'S GOING ON.

SO YOU, YOU ASSIST IN, UH, WORK WITH THE COMMUNITY TO DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT TO REALLY IMPLEMENT AND ACHIEVE A LOT OF OVERALL POLICY GOALS.

SO, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU WORK ON THE GENERAL PLAN.

SO AS A, AS A, AS A, UM, PLANNING COMMISSIONER, BECAUSE I'M OFF NOW, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE HOUSING ELEMENT WAS A BIG DEAL, BIG DEAL IN SOUTH PASADENA, UM, AND THE CHANGE IN, IN, IN KIND OF STATE LAW IN AND AROUND HOUSING IS A, YOU KNOW, IS AFFECTING HISTORIC RESOURCES.

SO UNDERSTANDING THAT AND, UM, ADVISE, BEING ABLE TO ADVISE ON THAT MOVING FORWARD IS, UH, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING, A ROLE THAT YOU PLAY.

UM, AND THEN THERE'S LAND USE AND URBAN DESIGN IN THE GENERAL PLAN, THERE'S SUSTAINABILITY.

SO THAT'S A, THAT'S, UM, A BIGGER ISSUE.

I LIKE TO THINK OF SUSTAINABILITY AND, AND BOTH SUSTAINABILITY AND, UM, RESILIENCY.

YOU KNOW, THE ABILITY OF SOMETHING TO WITHSTAND SHOCK.

SO YOU HAVE A CLIMATE ACTION AND ADAPTATION PLAN IN PLACE.

UM, AND WE'RE SEEING MORE AND MORE GUIDANCE COMING DOWN REGARDING HISTORIC, UH, RESOURCES AND FLEXIBILITY TO DEAL WITH, UH, AND ADAPT TO CLIMATE CHANGE.

SO THE, I DON'T KNOW, WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT LATER, BUT THERE'S BEEN, THERE'S A PUBLICATION ON FLOODS AND HOW TO TREAT HISTORIC BUILDINGS AND FLOOD ZONES THAT JUST CAME OUT FROM THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE.

AND THEY'RE WORKING ON ONE FOR FIRE.

SO THERE'LL BE ONE COMING FOR, YOU KNOW, ALL THE FIRES WE HAVE ALL THE TIME.

[00:50:01]

UH, UM, OF COURSE THERE'S A HISTORIC, UH, PRESERVATION ELEMENT IN GENERAL PLAN, AND NOW EQUITY.

SO THIS IS ACTUALLY ONE OF FLORA'S SPECIALTIES IS KIND OF LOOKING AT, YOU KNOW, HOW PLACES DEVELOP AND HOW UNHEARD, UM, ETHNIC GROUPS AND OTHER GROUPS FIT INTO THAT DEVELOPMENT, AND HOW YOU CAN START TO, UM, INTEGRATE THEM INTO THE STORY OF THE CITY AND PRESERVATION OF THE CITY WHEN THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO OWN REAL ESTATE OR DISCOURAGED TO OWN REAL ESTATE.

SO HOW DO YOU WEAVE THAT IN? SO THERE'S AN EQUITY PIECE TO THIS TOO.

UM, SO THAT'S KIND OF JUST THE GENERAL PLAN PIECE, BUT THEN THERE'S A LOT OF CHANGES GOING ON AROUND HOUSING AND THE, AND STATE LAW.

UM, SO WE SEE, UH, ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS, WE'RE SEEING A LOT, MUCH MORE, UH, OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS, REALLY, SO, YOU KNOW, REQUIREMENTS FOR HOUSING AND THE DESIRE TO NOT HAVE DISCRETIONARY REVIEW ANYMORE.

SO, YOU KNOW, THIS CHANGE TO, UM, YOU KNOW, STAFF LEVEL REVIEW AND NOT COMING BEFORE THE COMMISSION IF YOU CAN MEET THESE SPECIFIC DESIGN STANDARDS, SO THEY'RE NOT GUIDELINES ANYMORE.

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, COUNCIL MAYORAL PRIORITIES EXIST TOO.

LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE OLYMPICS ARE COMING, SO THERE'S A, YOU KNOW, THERE'S GOING TO BE, UM, CHANGE IN CONSTRUCTION AROUND THE OLYMPICS, AND HOW WOULD THAT AFFECT HISTORIC RESOURCES? YOU'RE THE ADVISORY GROUP FOR THAT.

AND THEN THE DEVELOPMENT PROCESS, YOU'VE GOT ALL KINDS OF PLANNING APPROVALS, RIGHT? YOU'VE GOT ZONING, CHANGE IN USE, PARKING CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS IS YOUR, UM, YOUR MAIN PIECE.

AND THEN CCQA APPROVALS OF WHICH CFA PLAYS A ROLE AND BUILDING PERMITS.

SO ALL THESE THINGS ARE GOING ON AND YOU TOUCH UPON DIFFERENT ONES, BUT YOUR MAIN ROLE IS CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS.

OKAY, YOUR TURN.

SO I'M GONNA HAND IT OVER TO FLOOR, SO I'M NOT AS TALL AS JOHN, SO I DO ADJUST THIS.

YOU CAN DROP THE WHOLE TABLE IF YOU'D LIKE.

I THINK THIS WORKS.

CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY? OKAY.

UH, SO ALL THAT IS TO JUST TO SET THE STAGES TO SORT OF THE THINGS THAT YOU DO DAY AT EACH OF YOUR MEETINGS, UH, AND PUTTING IN CONTEXT OF HOW IT FITS INTO MANY OF THE OTHER THINGS IN THE CITY.

AND WE WANNA GO THROUGH THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS PROCESS.

WE ALREADY SAW ONE THAT YOU DID TODAY, BUT JUST MAKE SURE, UM, WE'RE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE ABOUT THAT PROCESS.

THAT IS IN YOUR ORDINANCE FOR HISTORIC PRESERVATION PIECE, UM, IN THE MUNICIPAL CODE.

THAT'S REALLY FOR REVIEWING PROPOSED MODIFICATIONS TO THE INDIVIDUAL LANDMARKS AND PROPERTIES IN YOUR LANDMARK DISTRICTS.

SO THIS IS YOUR CHANCE TO SORT OF MANAGE THE RESOURCES THAT YOU DETERMINE ARE IMPORTANT TO THE CITY, UH, BY DESIGNATING THEM.

AND THERE ARE TWO LEVELS OF REVIEW.

THERE'S THOSE MINOR PROJECTS THAT ARE HANDLED AT THE STAFF LEVEL, AND THEN THE MAJOR PROJECTS THAT COME TO ALL OF YOU.

SO THIS WAS OUR ATTEMPT TO TRY TO, UM, SIMPLIFY THE PROCESS.

IT LOOKS COMPLICATED BECAUSE IT MAY BE, THERE ARE MULTIPLE STEPS INVOLVED.

WE'LL COME BACK TO THIS.

UM, BUT ULTIMATELY, THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS IS ONE STEP TO GET TO, FOR A PROJECT TO GET TO BUILDING PERMITS SO THAT THEY CAN ACTUALLY PULL THEIR PERMITS AND START THEIR PROJECT.

UM, THERE ARE, THERE ARE SORT OF A SIMPLE PATH FOR THROUGH THE CITY STAFF, AND THEN THERE IS A, A PATH THAT TAKES A LITTLE BIT LONGER.

SO WE'LL START WITH THE, UM, THE MINOR PROJECTS.

THIS, THE PROJECTS THAT STAFF CAN REVIEW.

UH, AND YOU MAY NOT WANNA KNOW THIS, BUT THERE'S A LOT HAPPENING BEHIND THE SCENES THAT YOUR STAFF IS REVIEWING.

FOR MANY OF THESE PROJECTS.

MOST OF THE SMALLEST SCALE ALTERATIONS, UM, CAN BE HANDLED AT STAFF LEVEL.

SOMEONE COMES IN WITH A PROJECT, A STAFF REVIEWS IT AND THEY CAN SIGN OFF ON IT.

AND THAT TYPICALLY ARE PROJECTS WHERE THERE'S NOT VERY MUCH CHANGE HAPPENING TO THE HISTORIC RESOURCE.

UM, THERE MAY BE LIKE FOR LIKE WINDOW REPLACEMENTS OR IN KIND WINDOW REPLACEMENTS, UH, SOME REPAIR AND REPLACEMENTS FOR, UM, THINGS LIKE SIDING THAT ARE IN KIND OR SOME OF THE PORCH AND ENTRYWAY MODIFICATIONS.

WE TALKED ABOUT RAIN GUTTERS PREVIOUSLY.

SO SOME OF THAT CAN SOMETIMES BE DONE AT THE STAFF LEVEL.

UH, AND I THINK MORE AND MORE THEY SEE THINGS LIKE FENCING, UM, AT THE SITE THAT ALSO CAN BE DONE AT THE STAFF LEVEL.

AND, UH, MECHANICAL UPGRADES, UH, WE SEE LOTS OF INSTALLING AIR CONDITIONING OR OTHERS THAT IT'S NOT GONNA AFFECT THE HISTORIC BUILDING OR THE VIEW OF IT.

UM, BUT ARE THINGS THAT BUILDINGS NEED OVER TIME.

AND, UM, THE STAFF WORKS VERY HARD WITH THE APPLICANTS IS TRY TO GET THROUGH THOSE.

AND THAT REALLY IS, UM, SORT OF THE SHORTER VERSION TO, OR SHORTER ROUTE TO GET TO THEIR CERTIFICATE

[00:55:01]

OF APPROPRIATENESS.

THEN THERE'S THE LARGER PROJECTS THAT COME TO ALL OF YOU, WHICH MAY BE THE, THE MORE COMPLICATED ONES, UM, OR JUST THE ONES THAT, UM, ARE VISIBLE FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY.

SO YOU HAVE ADDITIONS TYPICALLY OVER 250 FEET THAT DOES COME TO YOU.

BUT THOSE SMALLER ONES THAT ARE ALSO VISIBLE FROM THE PUBLIC DRIVEWAY WILL COME TO ALL OF YOU.

UM, TWO STORY AND SECOND STORY ADDITIONS.

I THINK THOSE, UM, HAPPEN.

THEY MAY HAPPEN QUITE A BIT, BOTH FOR INDIVIDUAL BUILDINGS, BUT ALSO FOR BUILDINGS IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS.

UH, AND THEN ALTERATION SETTINGS.

SO THINGS HAPPENING AROUND, NOT JUST FOR THE BUILDING ON THE SITE ITSELF, BUT THINGS AROUND THE BUILDING.

UM, SO THAT MAY BE DEALING WITH, UM, OUTBUILDINGS LIKE GARAGES AS WE SEE MORE OF THEM BECOMING, UM, ACCESSORY DWELLING UNITS.

AND A D SOME OF THAT WILL COME TO YOU AS WELL.

UM, THINGS THAT MAY NOT BE APPROPRIATELY, THAT THAT MAY NOT BE APPROPRIATE, THAT'S HAPPENING TO THEM, UM, AS WELL AS NEW INFILL CONSTRUCTION.

SO SOME OF THESE END UP BEING SOME OF THE HARDER QUESTIONS THAT, THAT HAS MORE, UM, THERE'S MORE FLEXIBILITY AND MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR YOU TO HAVE INPUT ON HOW THOSE GET DESIGNED.

UH, ONE THING THAT DOESN'T COME TO YOU VERY OFTEN, UH, TYPICALLY ARE INTERIORS.

SO FOR PER YOUR ORDINANCE, THE CULTURAL HERITAGE, UH, THE LANDMARK DESIGNATION TYPICALLY DOES NOT INCLUDE INTERIOR SPACES UNLESS THEY ARE PUBLIC SPACES.

SO MOST HOMES YOU PROBABLY WON'T SEE THE INTERIOR WORK THAT WOULD BE PART OF YOUR REVIEW.

AND ALL THIS LEADS TO, UH, THE FINDINGS THAT YOU HAVE TO MAKE.

UH, AND THIS AGAIN, IS IN YOUR ORDINANCE THAT YOU HAVE FOUR FINDINGS THAT YOU HAVE TO MAKE ON EVERY ONE OF THE PROJECTS.

THAT CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS PROJECTS THAT COME TO THE COMMISSION.

UM, AND I'LL READ THEM 'CAUSE THEY ARE, UM, SPECIFIC TO HOW YOUR, UM, ORDINANCE STATES THEM, THAT YOU'RE REQUIRED TO MAKE THESE FINDINGS.

THAT THE PROJECT WILL NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT ANY SIGNIFICANT HISTORICAL, CULTURAL, ARCHITECTURAL OR AESTHETIC FEATURES OF THE LANDMARK OR SUBJECT PROPERTY IN THE LANDMARK DISTRICT.

UM, THEY WILL REMEDY ANY CONDITION DETERMINED TO BE IMMEDIATELY DANGEROUS OR UNSAFE.

SO THOSE ARE CODE ISSUES WILL COMPLY WITH THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES AND WILL COMPLY WITH DESIGN GUIDELINES FOR LANDMARK DISTRICTS.

SO ONLY FOR THOSE PROPERTIES IN THE LANDMARK DISTRICTS.

UH, AND THAT FIRST ONE, UM, WE UNDERLINE THOSE FOUR ELEMENTS BECAUSE DEPENDING ON THE HISTORIC RESOURCE THAT'S BEFORE YOU, THEY MAY HAVE SIGNIFICANCE FOR DIFFERENT REASONS.

SOME ARE VERY CLEARLY ARCHITECTURALLY SIGNIFICANT, UM, BUT OTHERS MAY BE SIGNIFICANT FOR THINGS THAT YOU CAN'T SEE.

SO IT'S HARD TO TIE WHAT THEY'RE IMPORTANT TO, TO MAYBE THE PHYSICAL ASPECTS OF THEM.

UH, JOHN MENTIONED SOME OF THE EQUITY ISSUES.

SO THEY'RE MAY BE PROPERTIES THAT ARE SIGNIFICANT FOR EVENTS OR PEOPLE, BUT THEY'RE VERY MODEST ARCHITECTURALLY, BUT THEY'RE STILL IMPORTANT BECAUSE THEY TELL PART OF THE CITY'S HISTORY, UM, AND ARE RELATED TO IMPORTANT ASPECTS.

SO THOSE MAY BE A LITTLE BIT HARDER TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO, UH, EVALUATE AND WHAT THAT LINE IS.

BUT WE CAN TALK, WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT THAT IN A LITTLE BIT AS WELL.

BUT BECAUSE ALL THESE FINDINGS, ALL THESE FOUR FINDINGS ARE REQUIRED TO MAKE, UM, THE IMPORTANT PART IS HOW YOU GET THERE.

HOW DO YOU MAKE THOSE FINDINGS? HOW CAN YOU, UM, APPLY THE FACTS AND EVIDENCE THAT YOU'RE HEARING, THE THINGS THAT ARE BEING PRESENTED TO YOU AND SAY, YES, YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH, UH, THOSE, THESE FINDINGS THAT YOU DO FIND, THAT THE PROJECT DOES NOT ADVERSELY AFFECT SIGNIFICANT FEATURE THAT THEY DO.

IT DOES COMPLY WITH STANDARDS.

OR IF YOU FIND THAT THEY DON'T, WHY DOES IT, WHY DOES THE PROJECT NOT DO THOSE THINGS? SO I THINK WE'LL GET INTO THAT A LITTLE BIT MORE AT THE, UH, LATER ON IN THE, OR AS PART OF THE PRESENTATION.

THAT'S SORT OF THE MEAT OF THE PRESENTATION.

BUT NOW I BRING THIS BACK TO SAY, UM, A LITTLE BIT, UH, HOPEFULLY IT MAKES A LITTLE BIT MORE SENSE.

NOW, THAT TOP PATH FROM CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS APPLICATION TO BUILDING PERMITS, UM, IS THAT MINOR PROJECTS PATH.

SO TYPICALLY IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE STRAIGHTFORWARD.

UM, YOUR STAFF RECEIVES THE APPLICATION, MAKE SURE IT'S COMPLETE.

UH, THEY WORK WITH THE APPLICANT BACK.

IT CAN BE BACK AND FORTH, MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE WHAT THEY NEED AND THEY REVIEW THAT WITHIN 45 DAYS AND GET THE DETERMINATION.

IF THEY APPROVE OR CONDITIONALLY APPROVE, THEN THE PROJECT IS CLEAR TO GO GET AND GET BUILDING PERMITS.

UM, THEY CAN DECIDE THAT, BRING THAT ITEM TO CULTURAL HERITAGE COMMISSION, OR IF THEY DENY AND SAY, UH, NO, THEY DON'T, THEY'RE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, THE APPLICANT CAN DECIDE TO APPEAL THE STAFF'S DECISION AND COME TO ALL OF YOU, UH, FOR YOUR DECISION.

SO THAT'S THE, THE PATH DOWN.

BUT THEN WITH MAJOR PROJECTS, IT COMES ALL TO ALL OF YOU REGARDLESS OF WHAT THOSE PROJECTS ARE.

THE STAFF STILL WORKS WITH THEM TO GET TO THAT POINT.

IT COMES TO ALL OF YOU FOR THE HEARING.

AND THEN YOU HAVE TO MAKE THOSE FOUR FINDINGS AND DECIDE IF YOU CAN MAKE THOSE FOUR FINDINGS.

[01:00:01]

YOU CAN PROVE IT FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.

YOU CAN, UH, PROVE WHAT CONDITIONS AND MODIFICATIONS.

I THINK YOU'VE, UH, WE HEARD YOU DO SOME OF THAT EARLIER.

UH, OR AGAIN, YOU CAN DENY IT.

AND THEN THAT'S WHERE THE PROJECT MAY STOP.

THEY MAY DECIDE NOT TO DO IT, UH, OR THEY CAN DECIDE TO RE TO REDESIGN IT AND BRING IT BACK FOR THE WHOLE PROCESS.

THEY CAN ALSO CHOOSE TO APPEAL YOUR DECISION TO PLANNING COMMISSION.

THAT AGAIN, IS HOW YOUR ORDINANCE IS SET UP.

UM, AND THAT DENIAL, IF THAT HAPPENS AND THEY APPEAL TO THE PLANNING COMMISSIONS, THEY WILL LOOK AT ALL OF THE RECORDS THAT YOU ALL HAVE LOOKED AT.

THEY WILL LOOK AT, UH, YOUR REASONING FOR DENYING, AND THEN MAKE A DECISION FROM THE PLANNING COMMISSIONS.

AND, UH, BASED ON ALL THAT EVIDENCE THAT'S, THAT WAS PRESENTED, SO YOU HAVE A BIGGER, UH, PART OF THIS THAN STAFF DOES NECESSARILY.

SO THAT GETS US TO, UM, TALKING ABOUT FINDINGS A LITTLE.

I WILL THROW IT BACK TO JOHN, BUT PART OF THIS IS TO HELP YOU GET TO THOSE FINDINGS.

SO YOU HAVE DECISION MAKING AUTHORITY, RIGHT? SO YOUR DELIBERATIONS, UM, YOUR DOCUMENTS ARE PART OF THE PUBLIC RECORD.

UM, PARTICULARLY, UH, IT HELPS TO UNDERSTAND YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS FOR APPROVING OR DENYING THE C OF A.

UM, SO THERE'S, YOU REALLY ARE APPLYING RULES TO FACTS AND EVIDENCE.

UH, REVIEWING THE APPLICATION MATERIALS, UM, PRIOR TO THE HEARING IS, UH, VERY HELPFUL.

UM, HEARING FROM THE APPLICANT AND LISTENING OPEN MIND, I HOPE YOU GUYS GET BROWN ACT TRAINING.

UM, NOT PRE-JUDGING THINGS, BUT LISTENING TO APPLICANT STAFF, PUBLIC.

UM, BUT YOU KNOW, KEY IS THESE FINDINGS.

DO YOU AGREE WITH THE FINDINGS THE STAFF KIND OF MADE FOR YOU? DO YOU FEEL CONFIDENT YOU CAN MAKE THEM? UM, IF YOU DON'T, WHY? IF YOU DO, WHY? UM, SO THAT'S AN IMPORTANT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PIECE.

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, BALANCING, I ALWAYS, I ALWAYS, WE, WE HAVE THIS ICON WITH A BALANCE AND WE USE IT ALL THE TIME, BUT REALLY YOU DO, YOU ARE BALANCING THINGS, UM, THE NEEDS, GOALS AND DESIRES OF THE APPLICANT, UH, ECONOMIC FEASIBILITY, YOU KNOW, YOUR, YOUR, UM, CHARGE OF HISTORIC PRESERVATION AND ENCOURAGING THAT IN THE CITY.

AND THEN KIND OF REALLY WHAT IS THE BEST INTEREST.

I THINK I'VE WORKED ON, YOU KNOW, THOUSANDS OF PROJECTS NOW, AND THEY'RE GOOD PROJECTS THAT ARE NOT GOOD PRESERVATION PROJECTS.

THERE ARE GOOD PRESERVATION PROJECTS THAT ARE BAD FOR THE CITY.

AND YOU SEE THAT, AND YOU KNOW THAT WEIGHING THAT IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF WHAT YOU DO TO YOU.

YOU'RE GONNA COME UP, WE'RE GONNA DO THIS TOGETHER.

SO THERE'S MYTHS AND THERE'S REALITIES, RIGHT? SO MYTH NUMBER ONE.

AND AS AN ARCHITECTURAL HISTORIAN, I ALWAYS WISH I HAD ALL THE INFORMATION AND I'M ALWAYS LOOKING FOR ALL THE INFORMATION.

SO WE'LL GO THROUGH, THERE'S A LONG LIST.

SO WE'LL READ THIS AND BREAK IT UP A BIT.

SO ONE OF THE MYTHS, UM, ACTUALLY LET'S GO BACK ONE SLIDE BEFORE WE GET, SO WE HAVE THE ICONS AT THE BOTTOM, SORT OF TRYING TO WALK THROUGH THE PROCESS WITH YOU A BIT.

UM, SO YOU CAN BREAK DOWN THAT PROCESS INTO THINK ABOUT THE FINDINGS, BUT ALSO WHAT QUESTIONS TO ASK AND HOW TO GET THERE.

AND THEN THAT LEADS US TO THE NEXT SLIDE, WHICH IS THE MYTHS AND REALITIES.

UM, YOU CAN GO ADVANCE TO THAT NOW.

UM, BECAUSE THESE PROJECTS, UM, THERE'S NEVER AN EASY ANSWER.

UM, AND I THINK JOHN AND I BOTH, WHEN WE WORK ON PROJECTS, WE WILL HAVE A LOT OF DISCUSSIONS AND TALK THROUGH THEM.

SO THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE HEAR OFTEN FROM PEOPLE ABOUT, UH, HISTORIC PRO, UM, PROJECTS WITH HISTORIC RESOURCES.

ONE OF THE FIRST THAT THEY, UH, HISTORIC RESOURCES AND FEATURES CAN'T EVER CHANGE.

AND THAT'S REALLY NOT TRUE.

UM, HISTORIC RESOURCES NEED TO CHANGE.

THEY NEED TO ADAPT.

I, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE MANTRAS OF OUR FIRM IS, YOU KNOW, HISTORIC PRESERVATION ISN'T AS MUCH ABOUT THE PAST IS, IS ABOUT THE FUTURE.

YOU KNOW, YOU ARE DECIDING WHAT GET, YOU'RE DECIDING WHAT GETS KEPT, WHAT'S IMPORTANT, WHAT'S CHARACTER DEFINING, HOW DO THINGS EVOLVE? AND, YOU KNOW, YOU WANNA, IT'S, IT'S A SUSTAINABLE QUESTION.

YOU WANNA MEET THE NEEDS OF THE PRESENT, BUT YOU WANNA ALLOW FOR THE FUTURE.

AND THAT'S, THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PART OF YOUR CHARGE.

AND THAT THERE'S ONLY ONE RIGHT APPROACH TO ANY PROJECT.

SO THERE, THAT'S ALSO NOT TRUE.

THERE'S LOTS, THERE'S INFINITE AMOUNTS OF APPROACHES TO PROJECTS.

AND IF YOU'RE A DESIGNER, YOU KNOW, THERE'S INFINITE, UM, SOLUTIONS TO PROBLEMS. UM, I'LL, I'LL TALK ABOUT A LITTLE BIT MORE, BUT THERE'S A RE-EMPHASIS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL ON FLEXIBILITY.

THE STANDARDS ARE MEANT TO BE FLEXIBLE.

THEY WERE NOT MEANT TO BE RIGID.

YOU'RE MEANT TO TAKE EACH PROJECT INDIVIDUALLY AND APPLY THE STANDARDS IN A FLEXIBLE WAY.

[01:05:01]

UM, AND THAT'S SORT OF A MYTH THAT YOU WILL HAVE ALL THE HISTORIC RESOURCES AND ALL THE, UM, INFORMATION ABOUT A PROPERTY.

YEAH, FREQUENTLY YOU'LL HAVE TO MAKE DECISIONS WITHOUT, UH, INFORMATION, BUT YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN ASK FOR CLARIFICATION.

AND, YOU KNOW, ON THE PROPOSAL SIDE, YOU CAN ALWAYS, UM, ASK FOR CLARIFICATION, MAYBE MORE DETAIL LIKE YOU DID IN THE, IN THE ITEM YOU JUST HEARD.

UM, ANOTHER MYTH THAT WE OFTEN HEAR IS THAT PROJECTS WILL MEET, UM, ALL THESE STANDARD PRESERVATION STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES THAT THE ONES THAT MEET THEM WILL BE GOOD PROJECTS.

UH, AND THOSE THAT DON'T, WON'T BE BAD.

IT, YEAH, IT'S HARD TO REGULATE GOOD DESIGN.

UM, AND WHAT'S ON PAPER ISN'T ALWAYS WHAT IS, UH, BECOMES BUILT IN REALITY.

UM, SO YOU, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A LITTLE FAITH IN, IN YOUR, UH, JUDGMENT.

UM, ALSO THAT THE PROJECT STAFF TO MEET ALL OF THE STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES.

YEAH, THAT'S A, THAT'S ALSO NOT TRUE.

, YOU NEED TO MEET ENOUGH.

SO IT'S, IT'S, IT'S YES.

NO, BUT THAT, GETTING TO THAT YES NO CAN BE GRAY.

SO, SO THERE'S ALWAYS TRADE OFFS.

THERE'S ALWAYS THAT COMPROMISE THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT EARLIER.

YEAH, IT'S FIGURING OUT WHAT YOU CAN LIVE WITH ON BOTH SIDES.

YEP.

UM, ANOTHER THING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE ACTUALLY JUST WAS WORKING ON PROJECTS LIKE THIS WHERE, UM, ANOTHER ARCHITECT FELT THAT FOR ALL, WE TOLD 'EM WHAT THE CHARACTER FIVE FEATURES WERE AND ORIGINAL MATERIALS, AND THEY FELT LIKE THEY COULDN'T TOUCH THOSE AT ALL, AND THAT THEY HAD TO RETAIN ALL THOSE ELEMENTS.

IT'S A, IT'S A GOAL, BUT I, YEAH, WE'LL, WE'LL GET INTO THIS A LITTLE BIT, BUT I ALWAYS THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SPATIAL RELATIONSHIPS, THERE'S SPACES, THERE'S FEATURES, AND THERE'S MATERIALS, AND YOU NEED TO THINK OF THOSE HOLISTICALLY.

SO SOMETIMES THE MATERIALS MIGHT NEED TO BE SACRIFICED FOR LIKE A SEISMIC UPGRADE.

AS LONG AS YOU CAN, UM, RETAIN THAT CHARACTER OR BRING BACK THAT CHARACTER OF DETAIL, THAT'S OKAY.

THE MATERIAL DON'T BE SO PRECIOUS WITH THE BUILDINGS.

LOOK AT THE END RESULT.

SO YOU CAN, YOU CAN HAVE THE CHARACTER AT THE END OF THE DAY, BUT YOU MAY NOT HAVE EVERY LITTLE PIECE OF ORIGINAL MATERIAL.

UH, AND THEN THE MYTH IS THAT, UM, APPLICANTS WILL HAVE THE TIME AND BUDGET TO MAKE CHANGES FOR A BETTER PRO OR A BETTER PROJECT.

YES, THEY FREQUENTLY DO.

NOT EVERYBODY'S GOT A BUDGET.

I THINK, UM, I ALWAYS REMEMBER WHEN I WAS, UH, EARLY IN MY CAREER, SOMEONE SAID, OH, THERE'S STANFORD.

THEY HAVE ALL THE MONEY IN THE WORLD, AND THEY CAN DO WHATEVER.

AND IT'S LIKE, THAT'S NOT TRUE.

EVERY, EVERY PROJECT HAS A BUDGET.

SO UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE'S TIME AND MONEY INVOLVED WITH THINGS IS, IS, IS FINE.

SOME DEFINITELY HAVE WAY MORE OF A BUDGET THAN OTHERS, BUT, UM, THERE STILL ARE LIMITS.

UH, AND WHILE WE ALL WORK IN HISTORIC RESOURCE WITH HISTORIC RESOURCE AND THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION, AND WE THINK PROTECTING THE HISTORIC RESOURCE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, IT'S ONE AMONGST MANY GOALS.

SO THAT'S, THAT'S S QL PROCESS.

BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES THERE IS, UH, HIGHER COMMUNITY BENEFIT THAN KEEPING A PARTICULAR RESOURCE.

SO THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE KIND OF MYTHS AND REALITIES THAT WE, UM, DEAL WITH ON A REGULAR BASIS.

THERE'S ACTUALLY MANY, MANY MORE, BUT THOSE ARE, UH, KEY TO, UH, MAKING DECISIONS FOR CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS.

SO, UH, THIS IS FROM THE LAST WORKSHOP.

UM, SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT THAT GOES INTO A HISTORIC RESOURCE.

AND LIKE FLORE WAS SAYING EARLIER, IT, SOME OF IT MAY NOT NECESSARILY BE THE ARCHITECTURE, IT MAY BE WHAT HAPPENED THERE, WHO LIVED THERE.

SO, YOU KNOW, JUST BEING COGNIZANT OF THOSE THINGS.

I ALWAYS ASK THE QUESTION, WHAT MAKES THE RESOURCES, WHAT, WHAT MAKES THIS HISTORIC? AND IT, WHEN YOU START TO THINK ABOUT THAT, UM, IT REALLY HELPS YOU KIND OF MAKE DECISIONS AND PRESERVE THE RIGHT THINGS.

UM, SO I'M GONNA, SO I'M GONNA GO ANOTHER SLIDE.

I THINK.

SO DO YOU, SO THERE ARE FIVE, UM, TYPES OF HISTORIC PROPERTIES FROM LAST TRAINING.

DO YOU GUYS REMEMBER WHAT THEY ARE? YOU CAN JUST SHOUT OUT.

YOU GET TO ANSWER THEM.

WHAT? I'LL GO, I, YEAH.

I'M NOT AS, NOT AS FUSSY ABOUT MATERIALS UNLESS IT'S A SPECIAL, UM, RESOURCE.

WE'LL GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE.

I CAN, I CAN TELL YOU.

UM, BUT WE WROTE 'EM DOWN.

SO, BUILDINGS, RIGHT? THE OBVIOUS THING, STRUCTURES, UM, TOWERS, BUT BOATS AND TRAINS AND ACTUALLY AIRPLANES CAN BE CONSIDERED STRUCTURES, OBJECTS, BOTH OBJECTS OF ART, BUT ALSO KINDA CEREMONIAL OBJECTS.

YOU'LL

[01:10:01]

SEE A LOT SITES.

SO SITES COMBINED BUILDING AND NATURAL FEATURES.

IT'S A, IT'S CLOSE TO DISTRICTS, BUT NOT QUITE.

AND THEN DISTRICTS ARE REALLY ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, CONTRIBUTING ELEMENTS, BUT THEY'RE AT A, A ACCUMULATION OF THINGS THAT MAKE UP SOMETHING.

AND, YOU KNOW, IN REALITY, I WAS REALLY GLAD TO SEE STAFF AND, AND GLAD YOU TALKED ABOUT THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND THE FACT THAT THIS WINDOW WAS, UM, YOU KNOW, IN OTHER PROPERTIES.

BECAUSE IN A, YOU REALLY SHOULD BE REVIEWING PROJECTS IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT SLIGHTLY DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU'RE, WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH JUST THE INDIVIDUAL LANDMARK, BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT THE WHOLE, THE RESOURCE, WHICH IS THE DISTRICT.

SO THIS IS A REMINDER ON KIND OF WHAT MAKES A PLACE HISTORIC.

SO THERE'S CONTEXT, SO HOW SOMETHING FITS INTO THE BROAD PATTERNS OF HISTORY.

AND WE ORGANIZE THAT THROUGH THEME, THROUGH PLACE, AND THROUGH TIME OR TIME.

SO PERIOD OF SIGNIFICANCE, YOU'LL HEAR THAT TERM.

UM, THEN HISTORIC.

IT'S, SO, IT NEEDS TO BE FIT INTO A HISTORIC CONTEXT.

IT NEEDS TO BE SIGNIFICANT WITHIN THE HISTORIC CONTEXT, AND IT NEEDS TO HAVE INTEGRITY.

SO IT NEEDS TO HAVE ENOUGH STUFF SO IT CAN TELL PEOPLE WHY IT'S SIGNIFICANT WITHIN PERIODS OF HISTORY.

SO SIGNIFICANCE BREAKS DOWN INTO DIFFERENT PIECES.

SO IT'S EVENTS OR PATTERNS OF EVENTS, PEOPLE, HISTORIC PEOPLE, AND THE PEOPLE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING HISTORIC.

AT THE, AT THE PROPERTY, THERE'S THE ONE THAT EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS, WHICH IS THE DESIGN, AND THERE'S PREHISTORY.

SO SOMETHING YOU MAY BE ABLE TO LEARN SOMETHING IN THE GROUND OR IN A BUILDING, UH, ABOUT PREHISTORY.

THAT MEANS YOU WANNA PROTECT IT.

AND THEN YOU HAVE HISTORIC INTEGRITY.

SO IT'S NOT THE SAME AS CONDITION.

CONDITION IS PHYSICAL CONDITION IS DIFFERENT THAN INTEGRITY, BUT IT'S, UM, MAD FLAWS IS THE ACRONYM.

SO MATERIALS, DESIGN, FEELING, LOCATION, ASSOCIATION, WORKMANSHIP, AND SETTING.

SO THOSE THINGS, YOU KNOW, REALLY TRANSLATE INTO CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES, THE PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS.

UM, I, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I LIKE TO USE JUST 'CAUSE IT HELPS ME ORGANIZE MY THOUGHTS.

SO YOU START BIG AND WORK YOUR WAY IN.

SO SIZE AND SCALE, AND THEN SHAPE AND FORM.

UM, ROOF FORMS IS PART OF THAT.

MATERIALS AND TREATMENTS, OPENINGS, PROJECTIONS, LIKE A CHIMNEY OR A PORCH AND TRIM AROUND THE OPENINGS.

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, YOUR, YOUR INTERIOR, UH, REVIEW IS A LITTLE LIMITED, BUT SOMETIMES YOU'LL GET INTO THAT.

AND THEN YOU HAVE THE SAME TYPES OF, UM, ORGANIZATION.

BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, ALL THIS BOILS DOWN TO THOSE CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES.

AND I ALWAYS LIKE TO EMPHASIZE SPACE AND SPATIAL RELATIONSHIPS WITH THAT.

UM, AND YOU HAVE VERY GOOD ARCHITECTURAL GUIDELINES TO HELP YOU, UM, WHEN YOU'RE MAKING A FINDING.

UM, YOU KNOW, CALL OUT THE SPECIFIC FEATURES AND, AND, UH, TALK IN A COMMON LANGUAGE.

SO, YOU KNOW, THESE THINGS REALLY DO HAVE RELEVANCE TO, UM, PROJECT REVIEW, RIGHT? SO WHAT IS THE RESOURCE TYPE? AND WE TALKED ABOUT, YOU KNOW, DISTRICTS VERSUS LANDMARKS.

UM, SOMETIMES LIKE A SITE IS IMPORTANT.

UM, WHY IS IT, WHY IS IT HISTORIC? LIKE WE SAID, SOME OF THOSE THINGS, UM, MAY BE, UH, MORE ASSOCIATIONS WITH PEOPLE OR EVENTS AS OPPOSED TO DESIGN AND WORKMANSHIP, UM, THE FEATURES.

UM, BUT YOU ALSO NEED TO THINK ABOUT THE NON HISTORIC FEATURES AND HOW THOSE MAY CHANGE AND HOW THAT CHANGE AFFECTS THE CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES.

AND THEN, UM, THE STANDARDS, WHICH WE'LL TALK ABOUT IN A MINUTE, BUT THESE, YOU KNOW, THESE TANGIBLE ASPECTS, THESE PHYSICAL ASPECTS ARE REALLY GOING TO GUIDE YOUR REVIEW.

AND THEN QUESTIONS TO THINK ABOUT ARE, YOU KNOW, WHAT'S THE RESOURCE TYPE? SO DISTRICT HOUSE, UM, TO WHAT EXTENT DO, DO THE PROPOSED CHANGES, UH, AFFECT THIS ABILITY TO, TO TELL THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE PROPERTY WITHIN A HISTORIC CONTEXT.

SO YOU CAN TIE PHYSICAL CHANGE TO SIGNIFICANCE.

AND THEN INTEGRITY IS ALSO LIKE A YES NO QUESTION.

EITHER HAS ENOUGH INTEGRITY OR DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH INTEGRITY, BUT IT GETS GRAY.

UM, SO WHAT'S THE BALANCE? CAN YOU, CAN YOU LOSE AN ASPECT OF WORKMANSHIP OR MATERIALS? LIKE I TALKED ABOUT MATERIALS EARLIER.

[01:15:01]

SO SOME PLACES YOU REALLY DO WANNA FOCUS ON THE MATERIALS.

AND THEN, UM, YOU KNOW, THIS BALANCE OF HOW, WHAT IS THE EFFECT OF THE PROJECT ON THOSE FEATURES, AND CAN YOU MAKE THOSE FINDINGS? SO YOU'RE UP AGAIN.

YEAH, WE'RE GETTING TO OUR ACTIVITY, RIGHT? UM, SO THAT'S SORT OF THE FIRST PART OF YOU'RE DOING YOUR PROJECT REVIEW, YOU'RE UNDERSTANDING YOUR RESOURCE AND WHAT MAKES IT HISTORIC.

WHAT ARE THE ASPECTS, UM, THAT ARE CHARACTER DEFINING THAT YOU SHOULD FOCUS ON? UM, I THINK ONE OF THE OTHER POINTS ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDE WAS THAT NOT NECESSARILY ALL ORIGINAL MATERIALS THAT ARE, THERE MAY BE CHARACTER DEFINING.

SO THAT AGAIN, IS THAT BALANCE OF WHAT IS REALLY THE THINGS THAT IF YOU WERE TO TAKE AWAY FROM A BUILDING, WOULD REALLY DRASTICALLY CHANGE, UM, ITS HISTORIC CHARACTER AND THAT THAT'S WHAT MAKES SOMETHING CHARACTER DEFINING.

UM, BUT NOW THAT YOU SORT OF UNDERSTAND THE RESOURCE, THE NEXT PART IS UNDERSTANDING THE PROJECT THAT'S BEFORE YOU.

AND, UM, OFTENTIMES WE SEE THAT THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE PROJECT IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ARE THOSE COMPONENT PIECES AND WHAT DO THEY, WHAT DO THEY MEAN? SO YOU DO GET A LOT OF INFORMATION IN YOUR, UM, BOARD PACKAGE THAT, UM, INCLUDES A DESCRIPTION, A A WRITTEN DESCRIPTION, AND THE APPLICATION PROCESS ITSELF SET OF DRAWINGS THAT, UM, SHOULD HAVE INFORMATION.

BUT SOMETIMES THERE, UH, SOME DRAWINGS ARE BETTER THAN OTHERS.

SOME ARE MORE DETAILED THAN OTHERS.

SO, UH, IT'S REVIEWING THOSE INFORMATION.

YOU MAY GET TECHNICAL REPORTS.

THERE MAY BE AN ANALYSIS BY A, AN ARCHITECTURAL HISTORIAN OR A PRESERVATION PROFESSIONAL ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT IT MEETS STANDARDS.

THERE MAY BE OTHER TECHNICAL REPORTS ABOUT SEISMIC, UM, OR STRUCTURAL WORK THAT'S PART OF THE ANALYSIS AND REVIEW.

AND THEN YOU DO HAVE YOUR STAFF REPORT, UM, THE REPORT FROM STAFF WITH SOME DRAFT FINDINGS AND THEIR ANALYSIS.

BUT ONE OF THE THINGS WE, UH, THAT'S WE FIND THAT'S USEFUL TO TRY TO BREAK IT DOWN IS TO THINK ABOUT THESE IN, IN, IN THE P DIFFERENT PIECES OF THE PROJECT, IS HOW THEY'RE AFFECTING THE HISTORIC RESOURCE AND THE DIFFERENT PARTS TO IT.

ONE OF THE FIRST IS THE QUESTION OF, UM, IS THERE A CHANGE IN USE? AND THAT TIES TO A SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS.

ONE OF THE FIRST ONES IS, IS IT CONTINUING THE SAME USE? IS THERE A CHANGE IN USE? AND THAT WILL DETERMINE HOW MUCH CHANGE MAYBE IS BEING ASKED, UM, UH, TO HAPPEN.

THEN THERE'S THE EXISTING, WHAT IS HAPPENING, UM, THINKING ABOUT WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED FOR THE EXISTING RESOURCE FOR THE EXISTING BUILDING ITSELF, UH, IS SOMETHING BEING PROPOSED TO BE DEMOLISHED VERSUS SOMETHING THAT'S BEING PROPOSED TO BE REPAIRED.

UM, AND REPAIR IS HOPEFULLY THEY'LL CALL IT OUT AS BEING SOMETHING THAT THEY ARE KEEPING AND, AND ACTUALLY, UH, LABELING AS REPAIR VERSUS SOMETHING.

SOMETIMES THEY'LL CALL IT REPLACEMENT, WHICH MEANS THAT THEY CAN'T REPAIR WHAT'S THERE, BUT THEY MAY BE PUTTING SOMETHING NEW IN ITS PLACE.

BUT THAT HOPEFULLY IS MATCHING WHAT'S THERE.

AND THAT'S, TO US IS ALSO DIFFERENT FROM IS SOMETHING'S BEING ALTERED.

WHAT YOU'RE SEEING THERE IS BEING PROPOSED TO BE CHANGED.

A WINDOW'S BEING WIDENED, UM, A WINDOW OPENING IS BEING WIDENED OR A DOOR IS BEING REPLACED AS SOMETHING OR BEING CHANGED TO SOMETHING ELSE.

A A WINDOW TO A DOOR.

SO THOSE WOULD BE ALTERATIONS.

THAT'S DIFFERENT, BUT THAT IS HAPPENING TO THE EXISTING BUILDING.

BUT THOSE ARE DIFFERENT.

YOU WOULD BE THINKING ABOUT HOW THAT'S AFFECTING THOSE FEATURES DIFFERENTLY IF IT'S BEING REPAIRED VERSUS IF IT'S BEING ALTERED.

THEN THERE'S NEW ASPECTS THAT MAY, UH, THE PROJECT MAY BE PROPOSING.

IF THERE'S GONNA BE AN ADDITION, THAT WILL BE A NEW ASPECT, UH, DIFFERENT FROM AN ALTERATION.

YOU'RE NOT CHANGING THE BUILDING SO MUCH AS YOU'RE ADDING NEW TO IT.

THERE MAY BE NEWLY, UH, NEW BUILDINGS OR NEW, UH, FEATURES AS BEING ADDED THAT'S NEAR THE BUILDING THAT MAY NOT BE DIRECTLY TOUCHING THE HISTORIC BUILDING, BUT MAYBE CLOSE BY OR MAYBE SOMEWHERE ELSE ON THE PROPERTY.

THEN THERE'S ALWAYS, UH, THE THINGS HAPPENING TO THE SITE ITSELF.

SO OUTSIDE OF ANY OF THE BUILT BUILDINGS OR STRUCTURES, THEN YOU GET TO THAT SITE FEATURE.

UH, BUT BECAUSE THE PROPERTY IS DESIGNATED, SOME OF THOSE SITE FEATURES MAY BE ALSO HISTORICALLY IMPORTANT, UM, OR IN THEIR, IN A DISTRICT, THEY'RE PART OF A PATTERN.

SO SAME THING IS ARE THEY PROPO? IS THE PROJECT PROPOSING TO REMOVE SOMETHING? ARE THEY PROPOSING TO ALTER SOMETHING THAT'S, UH, ALONG THE SITE? ARE THEY ADDING SOMETHING? UH, FOR EXAMPLE, IF IT'S A, UM, PROPERTY THAT HAS NOT TRADITIONAL FENCES, BUT NOW THEY'RE PROPOSING TO ADD A FENCE.

SO THAT WOULD BE A NEW THING THAT YOU'D BE REVIEWING DIFFERENTLY THAN IF THERE'S AN EXISTING FENCE THAT'S BEING ASKED TO BE, UM, CHANGED IN SOME WAY.

AND THEN OFTENTIMES THERE ARE SOME REQUIRED THINGS, WHETHER IT'S CODE REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE, THAT NEED TO HAPPEN, OR MANY OF THE OTHER, UM, REQUIREMENTS THAT, UH, NEW PROJECTS ARE TASKED

[01:20:01]

WITH, WHETHER IT'S DEALING WITH SOME, UH, LIFE SAFETY ISSUES EXITING OR, UH, PROTECTION, UH, IF THERE'S SOME CODE ISSUES HAPPENING TO THEM, IF SOMETHING'S UNSAFE THAT THEY HAVE TO ADDRESS.

THERE MAY ALSO BE REQUIREMENTS OR A DESIRE FOR STRUCTURAL UPGRADES FOR SEISMIC, UM, MEETING SOME SEISMIC MANDATES.

ACCESSIBILITY OFTEN COMES IN AS WELL, WHETHER IT'S REQUIRED OR IT'S SOMETHING THAT THEY SHOULD DO.

SO THOSE ARE, THOSE TEND TO FALL UNDER NEW THINGS OR THEY FALL UNDER ALTERATIONS.

THEY'RE MAKING CHANGES TO THE HISTORIC BUILDING TO ADDRESS SOME OF THESE.

AND IT'S TRYING TO FIND THAT BALANCE OF HOW YOU CAN DO IT.

WE ALWAYS WANNA SEE THAT THESE THINGS, UM, GET INCORPORATED INTO HISTORIC BUILDING.

IT'S A QUESTION OF HOW YOU DO IT IN A WAY THAT KEEPS THAT HISTORIC CHARACTER.

BUT YOU MAY HAVE TO LOSE SOME HISTORIC MATERIALS.

YOU MAY HAVE TO CHANGE SOME CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES TO GET THERE.

AND IT'S BALANCING ALL THAT WITH ALL THE OTHER PIECES OF THE PROJECT.

AND THEN ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND THE PROJECTS, AS YOU BREAK IT DOWN, IT'S IDENTIFYING ISSUES.

IT'S THINKING NOW THAT YOU KNOW WHAT'S TO PROPOSE, IT'S THINKING OF HOW THOSE AFFECT, UM, WHAT MAKES SOMETHING HISTORIC.

GOING BACK TO THAT TYPE OF RESOURCE AND WHAT MAKES IT SIGNIFICANT.

WHAT ARE THE CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES? WHAT ARE THE NON HISTORIC FEATURES? WHAT ARE THINGS THAT MAYBE WERE ADDED, APPLYING THOSE THINGS, UH, WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED TO THOSE HELPS YOU START TO IDENTIFY WHAT MAY BE SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT YOU MAY BE CONCERNED ABOUT.

UM, MAYBE THERE'S NOT MUCH TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT.

MAYBE ALL THE CHANGES ARE HAPPENING IN THE NON HISTORIC AREAS OF THE PROPERTY.

AND, UM, IT ALL LOOKS FINE.

YOU'RE NOT REALLY TOO CONCERNED ABOUT IT, OR A LOT OF CHANGES MAY BE HAPPENING IN AREAS THAT, UM, YOU HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S UNCLEAR IN THE DRAWINGS THAT STARTS TO IDENTIFY THOSE THINGS THAT YOU MAY WANNA DISCUSS WITH STAFF, YOU MAY WANNA DISCUSS WITH THE APPLICANT.

UH, YOU MAY WANNA DISCUSS AMONG YOURSELVES AS TO IF YOU HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS ABOUT WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED AND DIFFERENT LEVELS OF YOUR COMFORT WITH, UM, WHAT CHANGE IS HAPPENING.

UM, AND SOME OF THOSE CHANGES.

UH, AND WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED MAY NOT BE WITHIN YOUR AUTHORITY.

UH, THAT'S ALWAYS THE HARD PART.

IT MAY BE SOMETHING PROPOSED ON THE INTERIOR THAT YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT.

YOU MAY BE ABLE TO ASK THOSE QUESTIONS, BUT THAT MAY NOT BE AN AREA THAT YOU CAN REVIEW OR SOMEONE'S, UM, TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S NEXT DOOR.

WE OFTEN SEE THAT TOO.

UM, OR IT'S NEXT TO A HISTORIC RESOURCE.

IT'S LIKE, WELL, UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S NOT THE RESOURCE, THE PROJECT THAT'S UNDER REVIEW FOR YOU.

AND SO IT'S TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THAT AUTHORITY.

I THINK YOUR STAFF WOULD, UH, IS HELPFUL IN IDENTIFYING THOSE THINGS.

SO LET'S SEE IF THIS ADVANCE TO THE NEXT SLIDE.

THERE WE GO.

SO WE'RE GONNA ASK YOU TO, UM, APPLY SOME OF THESE IN A SMALL ACTIVITY.

SO HOPEFULLY YOUR MICROPHONE'S GONNA TURN ON.

I'M GONNA GIVE YOU A LITTLE BACKGROUND FOR THIS PROJECT.

UM, SO THIS WAS A, THIS WAS A PROJECT WE LOOKED AT FOR A BIT, UH, SAY THAT WE'VE HAD INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS ABOUT IT TOO.

THE RESOURCE IS A, IT WAS A 1904 BARN ORIGINALLY THAT WAS THEN TURNED INTO A GARAGE IN 1929.

AND SO EVEN THAT CHANGE IS SOMETHING THAT HAD GAINED SIGNIFICANCE.

SO IT'S A GARAGE THAT WAS A CONTRIBUTOR ON A PRETTY LARGE SITE.

UM, IT'S NOT THE MAIN BUILDING, BUT IT'S ONE OF THE BUILDINGS THAT IS CONSIDERED CONTRIBUTOR.

SO WE TREAT IT AS A HISTORIC RESOURCE, BUT IT HAD A VERY SHORT LIST OF CHARACTER DEFINED FEATURES.

THE ONLY ONES THAT WERE LISTED WAS THAT IT HAS A TWO STORY RECTANGULAR MASSING.

SO THIS, THE PHOTO AT THE TOP IS THE FRONT.

UH, IT HAD ROUNDED DOUBLE OG WOOD SIDING, OH WAIT, I'M SORRY, THAT I THINK THAT GOT, UH, UH, IT HAS A HIP ROOF.

AND THEN THERE WERE SOME ORIGINAL FIX AND DOUBLE HUNG WINDOWS, MULTI-LINE WINDOWS THAT, UM, HAD WOOD SASHES AND SILLS.

AND THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH IT.

BUT THERE WAS ALSO A LOT OF NON-HISTORICAL ALTERATIONS.

UM, THE WINDOW THAT YOU SEE AT THE TOP THERE IN THE TOP PHOTO IN THE MIDDLE, UM, WAS A REPLACEMENT WINDOW THAT WAS NOT ORIGINAL.

THE ROOFING ITSELF IS A COMPOSITE SHINGLE.

IT PROBABLY WOULD'VE BEEN WOOD ORIGINALLY.

THIS, UH, STAIR DECK AND ENTRY DOOR AT THE BACK OF THE BUILDING THAT YOU SEE ON THE LOWER PHOTO IS NOT ORIGINAL.

IT WAS ADDED, UH, AND SOME OF THE DOOR, THERE'S A DOOR AND TWO WINDOWS ON ONE OF THE FACADES THAT WAS NEW.

AND HOPEFULLY YOU CAN SEE THIS, UM, ON THE LEFT IS WHAT'S EXISTING AND ON THE RIGHT IS WHAT'S PROPOSED.

SO THE EXISTING SHOWS WHAT, UM, IN DASHED LINES WAS PROPOSED TO BE DEMOLISHED.

THEY WERE GONNA REMOVE THAT NON HISTORIC EXTERIOR STAIR AND COVER PORCH AND REMOVE EXISTING SITE ENTRY DOOR.

UH, AND DID I SAY OVERHANG? UM,

[01:25:01]

AND THEN IN PLACE OF THAT, THEY WERE GONNA ADD SOME NEW, UM, A NEW, UH, SKYLIGHT AND REPAIR THE, THE ROOF LINE.

UM, THEY WERE ALSO GONNA DO, WELL ACTUALLY THIS IS PART OF THE EXERCISE NOW, I'M THINKING, OH, LET'S GO FORWARD.

SO I'M HOPING YOU CAN READ SOME OF THAT.

UM, THEY HAVE SOME NEW ELEMENTS LIKE, UM, TANKLESS WATER HEATERS AND A MOTION SENSOR AND EXHAUST FOR, UM, A NEW, UM, KITCHEN HOOD.

UM, I BELIEVE THIS ONE, THEY WERE CONVERTING IT FROM A GARAGE TO A ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT.

SO THERE'S A CHANGE IN USE.

IT'S GONNA BE A, A RESIDENTIAL USE.

UH, SO THAT WAS DRIVING SOME OF THIS, THEY'RE FILLING IN THAT DOOR AND THEN THEY WERE, UM, TALKING ABOUT REPLACING WINDOWS THAT WAS GONNA BE TALLER THAN THE ORIGINAL.

SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE YOU SORT OF WALK THROUGH THIS, UM, GIVEN THAT INFORMATION.

SO STARTING WITH USE, IS IT GONNA BE THE SAME USE CHANGE IN USE? SO THERE'LL BE A CHANGE IN USE.

WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THE EXISTING BUILDING? WELL, LET'S GO THROUGH THOSE PIECES.

WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED TO BE DEMOLISHED? THE STAIRCASE.

IT'S THAT A CHARACTER OF MY FEATURE.

SO HOPEFULLY THAT'S NOT TOO MUCH OF AN ISSUE THAT THEY'RE REMOVING A NON HISTORIC FEATURE.

UM, WHAT'S BEING REPAIRED ROOF.

YEP.

SO THEY'RE REPAIRING THE ROOF, UH, BECAUSE WHEN THEY PUT THAT STARE IN, UM, THEY INTERRUPTED THAT ROOF LINE.

SO ONCE I TAKE THAT AWAY, THEY HAVE TO REPAIR THAT.

AND AS A REMINDER, JUST BE SURE TO TURN YOUR MICROPHONES ON.

WHAT'S THAT? BE SURE TO TURN YOUR MICROPHONES ON.

MAKE, SO THE THINGS THAT ARE BEING, UH, REPAIRED ARE THE ROOF AND THE WALL WHERE THE EXTERIOR DOOR IS BEING REMOVED.

THE WHERE THE EXTERIOR DOOR ON THE FIRST FLOOR? YES.

WELL, SO THAT EXTERIOR DOOR IS A QUESTION THAT MAY BE AN ALTERATION, IF THAT'S AN ORIGINAL DOOR AND THEY WERE PROPOSING TO REMOVE IT.

UM, SO THEY'RE PUTTING NEW EXTERIOR WALL IN THAT PLACE.

AND THAT TO ME, I THINK WAS A QUESTION.

I WASN'T SURE IF THAT WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING IS, IS, UM, REMOVING EXISTING DOOR, IT'S A SITE ELEVATION, MAYBE THAT'S NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL.

AND THEN THEY'RE JUST PUTTING NEW SIDING OVER IT.

THIS IS WHERE WE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A FINE LINE.

SHOULD THAT SIDING MATCH EVERYTHING THAT'S THERE BECAUSE IT'S SORT OF INFILL? UM, OR DOES IT HAVE TO BE DIFFERENT? IT'S A SMALL ENOUGH AREA.

YOU PROBABLY WANT TO MATCH WHAT'S THERE.

LET'S SEE.

UH, IS THERE ANYTHING BEING REPLACED? WINDOWS.

THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT REPLACING SOME WINDOWS, AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS ON THE LIST OF CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES.

THE, THE WOOD MULTI LIKED WINDOWS AS CHARACTER DEFINING.

SO THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WOULD RAISE A QUESTION AS TO WHY ARE THEY REMOVING WINDOWS? UM, BUT THEY'RE ALSO ALTERING THE WINDOWS.

THAT'S CORRECT.

SO THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE THEM TALLER THAN ORIGINAL OPENINGS.

SO THAT'S ALSO A QUESTION, IS THAT THAT'S AN ALTERATION AND IS THAT A QUESTION OR ISSUE? AND, AND SOMETHING TO LOOK AT FURTHER.

AND FOR THIS, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION ABOUT THE SITE OR ABOUT THE SEISMIC OR ABOUT THE REQUIRE ELEMENTS.

UM, WHAT ELSE WAS ON HERE THAT MAY BE QUESTIONING? DOES THE SIZE, THE, THE, UH, CONTINUITY OF THE WINDOWS? TWO OF THE THREE ARE LARGER.

THEY'RE DEMOLISHING NEW THINGS.

LOOKS HORRIBLE.

SO I THINK YOU GOT ALL THOSE CORRECT.

THAT THEY ARE, THERE'S A CHANGE IN USE.

OH, WE, WE DIDN'T GO THROUGH WHAT THE NEW THINGS THEY WERE PROPOSING TO ADD.

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE NEW ELEMENTS THAT THEY'RE PROPOSING? SO IT LOOKS LIKE THEY HAVE A TRELLIS ON THE BACK.

IT LOOKS LIKE THEY HAVE A NEW KITCHEN HOOD OF THE, UM, THE MOTION SENSOR LIGHTS OR WATER TANKLESS, WATER HEATER, THE SKYLIGHT.

THERE WAS THE REST OF THE OTHER FACADES AND WE DIDN'T WANNA TAKE THE TIME TO GO THROUGH ALL THAT.

YEAH, I THINK THAT'S MOST OF THE ONES THAT WE COULD SEE AT LEAST ON THIS FACADE.

[01:30:01]

UH, AND SOME OF THOSE ARE SMALL, SMALL ITEMS, AND AGAIN, IT'S KIND OF TIED TO THE CHANGE IN USE.

SO GIVEN ALL THAT, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO LOOK AT FURTHER AND HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT OR HAVE A DISCUSSION THROUGH SOME OF THIS? WE CAN START WITH THE NEW, THE TANKLESS WATER HEATER, SECURITY LIGHT EXHAUST THROUGH, THROUGH THE WALL.

ANY CONCERNS ABOUT THOSE? ARE THEY GENERALLY NO, I THINK WE CAN COME BACK HERE IF YOU CAN STILL SEE SOME OF THAT.

I THINK WE, IT SEEMS LIKE WE ALWAYS, THERE'S, OR AT LEAST I ALWAYS HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT CAN BE SEEN FROM THE STREET AND HOW, HOW MUCH OF AN IMPOSITION THOSE THINGS ARE.

I MEAN, TONIGHT WE HAD, USUALLY WE TRY TO, ANYTHING THAT CAN BE SEEN FROM THE STREET, WE TRY NOT TO TOUCH.

BUT OFTENTIMES WE'LL HAVE THINGS WHERE, YOU KNOW, PRETTY, PRETTY OBVIOUS FROM THE STREET THAT YOU CAN BE SEEN.

AND, AND SO I ALWAYS, IT'S ALWAYS, I, I USUALLY ASK STAFF LIKE, SO, SO WHAT ARE YOU DOING ABOUT THAT? HOW COME, HOW COME THIS ONE'S OKAY, BUT IN THE PAST WE'VE SAID NO TO IT.

SO LET'S SAY THIS FACADE IS VISIBLE FROM THE STREET.

WOULD YOU HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT ANY OF THOSE? YEAH, I MEAN THE, YEAH, DEFINITELY.

IF THIS ONE, WELL, THE, IF THAT WAS FROM THE STREET, IT WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO BE ON THE FRONT FACADE, RIGHT? LET'S SAY IT'S THE SIDE FACADE OF THE SIDE STREET, SIDE STREET.

SO A SIDE STREET.

WELL THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE RUN INTO ALL THE TIME.

SO IT'S, IT'S VISIBLE FROM THE SIDE.

SO WE KINDA LET IT GO.

, IT SEEMS LIKE, YEAH, THEY SEEM LIKE SMALL SCALE FEATURES THAT AREN'T THAT BIG OF A DEAL, BUT IF THERE'S TOO MANY OF THEM, MAYBE THAT'S A RIGHT.

AN ISSUE.

DIDN'T WE JUST LEARN EARLIER? IF IT'S LESS THAN 120 SQUARE FEET, IT'S STAFF LEVEL.

I THINK IT'S 250 SQUARE FEET, TWO 50 FOR ADDITIONS.

UNLESS IT'S VISIBLE FROM THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY.

AND JOHN, YOU MAY HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT ANY OF THESE ELEMENTS THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN MINE.

WE GO BACK AND FORTH.

UM, FOR THE MOST PART, YOU KNOW, I DON'T LOVE THE TYPE OF LIGHT, BUT MOTION SAID, HATE IT.

YOU MEAN THE MOTION SENSOR? THE MOTION SENSOR? YEAH.

NO, I WOULD, THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD WANT TO DO SOMETHING A LITTLE MORE DECORATIVE.

IT COULD STILL BE A MOTION SENSOR, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD WANT SOMETHING APPROPRIATE TO THE PERIOD OF THE, AND I THINK THE TANKLESS WATER HEATER HAS BUILDING CODE ISSUES AS TO WHERE IT GETS LOCATED.

UM, YOU KNOW, THERE IS DISTANCE REQUIREMENTS FROM WINDOWS, BUT IT'S ALSO NOT ALLOWED IN THE FRONT YARD SETBACKS.

SO WE WOULD NEED TO NOT, WE WOULD, THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE SCREENED OUT IF THIS IS THE SIDE FACADE, IT COULD STILL BE IN THE FRONT YARD SETBACK.

SO THERE COULD BE ISSUES WITH THAT AS WELL.

OR IF IT'S IN THE UTILITY CORRIDOR OF THE HOUSE, YOU KNOW, THEN WE DON'T HAVE AS MUCH NECESSARILY DISCRETION.

THAT'S GREAT.

I'M GLAD YOU KNOW ALL THAT AND, AND HAVE A SENSE OF THAT.

AND MY GUESS IS THAT IT PROBABLY WON'T, IT PROBABLY WOULDN'T GET TO YOU BY THE TIME.

THERE ARE THINGS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE DO WANT THE COMMISSION TO REALLY KIND OF THINK ABOUT THAT ARE MAYBE MORE CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES, UM, YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY'RE LOCATED.

STAFF PROBABLY WOULD HAVE REVIEWED THAT AND PICKED THAT UP AND SAID, YEAH, YOU PROBABLY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE THAT THERE IF IT'S FRONT FACING.

WELL, BUT, BUT WE SEE ALL THE TIME, WE SEE CODE VIOLATIONS WHEN WE'RE, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE'RE, WHEN WE'RE VIEWING THESE.

'CAUSE THEY'RE A LOT PRIMO PRELIMINARY, AND I ALWAYS SPEAK FOR YOURSELF.

I ALWAYS SEE, I ALWAYS SEE STUFF AND I ALWAYS KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT BECAUSE IT'S LIKE, IN THE PAST WE, I'VE BEEN TOLD THAT'S NOT, NOT SORT OF SOMETHING WE'RE FOCUSED ON.

WE'RE NOT FOCUSED ON THESE LITTLE CODE VIOLATION THINGS UNLESS THEY'RE RELATED TO, TO, TO PLANNING ISSUES AND NOT BUILDING ISSUES.

I'M GUESSING ASKING STAFF HAS WORKED THROUGH THOSE WITH, OR WORKING THROUGH THOSE WITH THE APPLICANT STAFF IS WELCOME TO WELL, DON'T EVEN, TO DON'T EVEN THINK THEY KNOW 'EM, THE ANSWER.

YOU KNOW, I DON'T EVEN THINK THEY'RE AWARE OF ALL OF THE BUILDING CODE ISSUES.

BUILDING CODE ISSUES AND NOT PLANNING ISSUES.

RIGHT, EXACTLY.

THEY'RE DIFFERENT.

SO, SO, SO I GUESS MY QUESTION WOULD BE, ARE WE, ARE YOU TELLING US NOW THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE POINTING OUT BUILDING CODE ISSUES OR JUST PLANNING CODE ISSUES? I MEAN, I'M GONNA SEE IF STAFF CAN JUMP INTO, BUT YEAH, I, I, I CAN CHIME IN ON THAT.

SO YES, THERE, SO YOU'RE RIGHT.

UH, COMMISSIONER KOFFI, THERE ARE TIMES WHERE, UH, THINGS OVERLAP, UH, WHERE, UH, YOU HAVE TO PASS THE ZONING CODE REQUIREMENT IN ORDER TO GO AND MOVE FORWARD OVER TO BUILDING AND SAFETY.

UM, AND SO THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE RELATED TO ONE ANOTHER.

I THINK WHAT WE'D PROBABLY SAY IS, UM, I THINK FOR, FOR THE COMMISSION TO REALLY THINK ABOUT, UH, IS, IS THAT

[01:35:01]

UM, THERE ARE TIMES WHERE MAYBE SOMETHING SMALLER, UM, AND IT ALSO KIND OF DEPENDS, UH, SOMETHING SMALLER THAT CAN PROBABLY BE, UH, NOT AS AN IMPACT, UH, TO LIKE A PRIMARY, UH, HISTORIC STRUCTURE.

I THINK THE OTHER THING TO REALLY THINK ABOUT IS, IS THAT THERE'S LEVELS AND SCALES TO THESE THINGS, RIGHT? SO, UH, YOU MIGHT HAVE, UH, AN HISTORIC DISTRICT PROPERTY THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S STILL SOMEBODY'S HOUSE, UM, AND IT'S STILL SOMETHING, UH, IT'S STILL A HOUSE WHERE SOMEBODY LIVES IN.

THERE'S A FAMILY THERE.

AND SO THERE ARE THINGS THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, WE DO WANT YOU TO THINK ABOUT IN TERMS OF COMPROMISE, UM, UH, TO, IN ORDER TO BE FLEXIBLE, UH, IN ORDER TO STILL HAVE THE BUILDING.

UH, I THINK, UH, JOHN MENTIONED IT EARLIER, UH, TO BE SORT OF REUSED IN THE FUTURE TO EXTEND THE LIFE OF A BUILDING.

AND THEN THE FLIP SIDE TO THAT, AND THIS IS WHAT I WAS MENTIONING ABOUT LEVELS, IS, IS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU DO HAVE YOUR INDIVIDUALLY DESIGNATED HISTORIC LANDMARK BUILDINGS, AND THOSE ARE REALLY KIND OF THINGS THAT YOU LOOK AT MAYBE WITH A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A DISCERNING EYE.

AND SO, UH, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF REALLY GREAT LANDMARK BUILDINGS HERE, AND A LOT OF TIMES WE DO HAVE ORIGINAL PLANS, NOT ALWAYS.

UM, BUT THOSE ARE THE ONES WHERE YOU MAYBE WANT TO HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE, UH, SCRUTINY IN TERMS OF, UH, YOU KNOW, FINER DETAILS THAT YOU MIGHT FIND IN A BUILDING.

UM, SO YEAH, I MEAN THERE'S NO SUPER CLEAR CUT LINE UNFORTUNATELY, BUT I THINK ONE OF THE MESSAGES FROM, FROM STAFF THAT, YOU KNOW, WE WANT YOU TO TAKE AWAY IS TO KIND OF ALSO THINK ABOUT IT, UH, IN THAT REGARD.

BECAUSE WHAT THE DISTRICT PROPERTIES, THEY'RE GREAT, THEY'RE AMAZING.

UM, BUT IT'S, UM, ALSO KIND OF JUST FINDING A BALANCE BECAUSE IT'S NOT A MUSEUM.

UM, SO I THINK THOSE, THAT'S KIND OF OUR MESSAGE TONIGHT.

YEAH, I THINK FOR SOME OF THIS IT'S, UM, YOU CAN VOICE YOUR OPINION, BUT YOU MAY NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO CHANGE THE BUILDING CODE OR SAY THAT.

BUT YOU CAN SAY, YOU KNOW, YOU QUESTION THAT, LIKE THE MOTION SENSOR LIGHT, THE COMMENT OF IF YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT THERE, MAYBE IT CAN BE MORE IN CHARACTER WITH THE BUILDING, BUT YOU'RE NOT GONNA NECESSARILY SAY YOU CAN'T HAVE IT THERE OR HAVE THAT BE A CONDITION.

SO, SO, SO THERE'S MUST AND SHOULDS, RIGHT? AND THIS COULD BE FRAMED AS A SHOULD OR I, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A PERIOD TO QUESTION THE APPLICANT, RIGHT? SO, UM, I LIKE TO PHRASE IT AS, HAVE YOU CONSIDERED, SO IN THIS CASE, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU HAVE A DOOR THAT WAS ORIG, PRESUMABLY ORIGINAL, YOU KNOW, HAVE YOU CONSIDERED, INSTEAD OF REMOVING THE DOOR AND PUT JUST SLAPPING ON WATER HERE ON THE SIDE, TURNING IT INTO A UTILITY CLOSET, YOU KNOW, COULD, COULD YOU, HAVE YOU CONSIDERED, YOU KNOW, KEEPING THE DOOR, KEEPING THE CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURE, BUT HAVING, YOU KNOW, YOUR TINK TANKLESS WATER HEATER INSIDE IN A CLOSET, THAT'S FREQUENTLY PEOPLE DON'T SEE IT, RIGHT? THEY HAVEN'T SEEN IT.

THEY DON'T, THEY HADN'T THOUGHT OF IT.

AND YOU KNOW, THEY MAY CHANGE THEIR MIND.

THEY VERY WELL MAY CHANGE THEIR MIND.

WHEN YOU START TO ELABORATE ON THINGS LIKE THAT, OR HAVE YOU LIKE WHERE THE SECURITY LIGHT IS, LIKE IS DRIVE IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WOULD DRIVE ME CRAZY.

IT'S LIKE, WHY IS IT UP SO HIGH? YOU KNOW? WHY DON'T, CAN'T YOU MOVE IT DOWN IN LINE WITH THE OTHER LIGHTS AND HAVE A MORE APPROPRIATE LIGHT? UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST THOSE TYPES OF THINGS PEOPLE FREQUENTLY JUST DON'T THINK ABOUT.

SO YOU CAN GIVE 'EM A LITTLE EDUCATION AND A LITTLE NUDGE.

SO IT MIGHT NOT BE A, SOMETHING THAT STOPS YOU FROM APPROVING THE PROJECT.

IT CAN, YOU CAN GET IT INTO THEIR MIND AND YOU CAN GET IT INTO THE RECORD.

AND SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN ASK STAFF TO, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE REVIEWING THIS PROJECT AFTER THE BUILDING, YOU KNOW, BUILDING CODE REVIEW WHEN THEY SUBMIT FOR PERMIT, COULD YOU JUST BACK CHECK THESE FIVE THINGS? 'CAUSE WE THINK THEY'RE GONNA CHA WE DON'T THINK THEY'RE GONNA MAKE IT THROUGH THE REVIEW.

THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO CHANGE.

SO THOSE ARE, YOU KNOW, THOSE ARE GOOD THINGS TO BE TALKING ABOUT AND POINTING OUT.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S AN EASY ROADMAP FOR THE STAFF.

OH YEAH, THIS, YOU KNOW, THE COMMISSIONER SAID THAT THIS WATER HEATER ISN'T GONNA BE ABLE TO LIVE HERE.

AND YOU KNOW, SURE ENOUGH IT GOT MOVED.

SO, UM, IS THIS, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT'S, UH, ACCEPTABLE OR NOT? BUT THOSE ARE REALLY GOOD ITEMS TO DISCUSS.

I HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT.

AND THEN DO THEY RISE TO SOMETHING WHERE YOU MIGHT ASK FOR A CONTINUANCE SO THEY COULD ADDRESS THEM OR, YOU KNOW, IS IT WORTH DENYING THE PROJECT FOR, FOR THIS I WOULD PROBABLY SAY NO, BUT I WOULD WANT THEM TO THINK ABOUT IT.

WINDOWS ARE A DIFFERENT DEAL THOUGH.

DEFINITELY FOR ME, THE WINDOW MOS WOULD BE A BIG DEAL.

'CAUSE IT'S CHANGED THE CHARACTER OF THE RIGHT, THE WHOLE MAKEUP OF THE WINDOWS.

I I AGREE WITH YOU.

IT'S THE

[01:40:01]

WINDOW MULLIN.

OR THE, IT'S THE, IT'S THE, I THINK IT'S THE, YEAH, THE SIZE OF THE UN ALIGNMENT IS I THINK THE SIZE COMMISSIONER PRIOR PRODUCT PROBABLY A CODE ISSUE.

'CAUSE THERE'S REQUIREMENTS FOR PIPES OF SILLS AND EGRESS IF IT'S AN A DU, BUT STILL, YOU KNOW, THE CHARACTER OF THIS IS AND THE TIME PERIOD, RIGHT? SO THEY USED TO, THE REASON, THERE'S A REASON WHY THEY DID LITTLE PIECES OF GLASS WAY BACK WHEN, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WAS AVAILABLE TO YOU.

A BIG PIECE OF GLASS IS VERY EXPENSIVE AND RARE.

SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S TELLS THE STORY OF THE HOUSE.

SO I AGREE A HUNDRED PERCENT, BUT I THINK THAT COMES BACK, THIS IS WHERE WE DISAGREE OF LOOKING AT IT.

IF SOMEONE SAYS, WELL, I, THIS NEEDS TO BE, WE'RE TURNING IT INTO A RESIDENCE AND WE DO HAVE THESE CODE REQUIREMENTS.

THE WINDOWS HAVE TO BE A CERTAIN SIZE FOR EGRESS.

THEY HAVE TO BE LOWERED.

YOU KNOW, IS THERE A COMPROMISE THAT CAN BE MADE THAT ALLOWS FOR SOME OF THAT TO STILL HAPPEN? IF THIS IS ON THE SIDE ELEVATION, UM, AND NOT THE FRONT AND THE FRONT'S MORE ORNATE, DO YOU ALLOW THAT IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES? OR WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT, UM, YOU MAY WANNA SEE HAPPEN TO IT? AND AGAIN, ALL OF YOU SHOULD, YOU KNOW, CAN TALK TO EACH OTHER.

SOME PEOPLE MAY SAY, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE WINDOWS BEING CHANGED OR THE WINDOW SIZES.

I MIND THE SIZES.

THAT'S THE, YEAH, THAT'S THE MUONS.

SO MAYBE THAT, THAT'S, COULD THAT BE ALSO A ADDRESS? FOR INSTANCE, THE EXTERIOR STAIR AND COVERED PORCH, LET'S SAY THAT IS A SECURITY OR SAFETY ISSUE FOR AN EXIT.

COULD THAT ALSO APPLY AS A, IN A VARIANCE? I'M SORRY, CAN YOU REPEAT THAT? SO FOR INSTANCE, YOU'RE IN THIS PROPOSAL, YOU'RE RECOMMENDING REMOVAL OF, UH, NON HISTORIC, UH, STAIRCASE.

BUT LET'S SAY THAT STAIRCASE PROVIDES A SECURITY ISSUE SUCH AS AN EXIT TO THE UPPER FLOOR.

COULD THAT THEN BE, UM, IN OTHER WORDS, MAINTAINED AND NOT REMOVED ON THIS PROJECT? WELL, THIS IS WHAT THE APPLICANT WAS, UM, PROPOSING.

SO THEY'RE SAYING THAT THEY DON'T THINK THEY NEED THAT FOR EXITING.

SO I'M GONNA ASSUME THAT THEY DON'T, THEY'VE DETERMINED THEY DON'T NEED THAT.

IF THEY DID, UH, AND THEY WANT, AND THEY SAID, YOU KNOW, WE STILL NEED THIS FOR EXITING.

WE'RE NOT GONNA REMOVE IT.

IT'S HERE ALREADY.

IT WAS ALREADY BUILT.

WE'RE NOT GONNA, UH, DO, WE'RE GONNA KEEP IT.

THAT SHOULD BE FINE TOO, IS ALREADY THERE EXISTING.

IT MAY NOT BE THE MOST COMPATIBLE THING THAT WAS BUILT AT THE TIME.

MAYBE THERE WAS NO REVIEW OF IT BEING, UM, AT THE TIME IT WAS ADDED.

BUT IF THEY WANTED TO KEEP IT AS IS, THAT'S, AND THAT'S NOT PART OF THE PROJECT, THEN THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S, I GUESS, A FOR YOUR REVIEW, NON NON HISTORIC FEE.

LIKE WE TALKED ABOUT NON HISTORIC FEATURES, RIGHT? SO THIS IS A NON HISTORIC FEATURE.

UM, IT'S NOT BEING CHANGED.

SO, YOU KNOW, I'D BE OKAY WITH IT SAYING IF, IF THAT'S WHAT THE APPLICATION WAS.

SOMETIMES THERE'S OPPORTUNITIES TO MAKE THINGS BETTER AND STAFF MAY, YOU KNOW, NUDGE THEM TO DO THAT.

YOU MAY BE ABLE TO DO THAT AS WELL.

BUT YEAH, IF IT'S THERE AND THEY'RE NOT TOUCHING IT, IT CAN STAY THERE.

BUT IF THEY DO PROPOSE, SAY, OH, WE ARE KEEPING THE STAIRS, BUT WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO MODIFY FOR CERTAIN REASONS, AND IT'S NOT A HISTORIC ELEMENT, YOU MAY STILL HAVE TO REVIEW THAT MODIFICATION TO MAKE SURE IT'S WITHIN THE CHARACTER OF THE BUILDING.

IT'S NOT DOING MORE DAMAGE.

BUT THERE MAY BE LESS, YOU'RE NOT DEALING WITH HISTORIC MATERIALS, SO MAYBE YOU'RE, IT'S LESS OF A, YOU WOULDN'T LOOK AT IT AS CAREFULLY AS YOU WOULD IF IT WAS AN ORIGINAL STAIR, I DUNNO WHERE WE ENDED UP ON THE WINDOWS.

SO YEAH, I FIGURE IT'S OKAY.

BUT THE LAYOUT'S BAD.

THE LAYOUT'S, OH, THE, THE LAYOUT OF THE, THE MOUNTAINS IS BAD AND THERE'S DIFFERENT WAYS OF DEALING WITH THAT.

UH, ONE, ONE QUESTION I HAVE IS REGARDING LANDMARK STATUS IN, IN THE, UH, THE INVENTORY THAT WE, YOU KNOW, WE, UH, TAKE ASSESSMENT IN OUR COMMUNITY.

SO THAT MAY BE, YOU KNOW, WANTING TO SEE MORE OF THOSE MULTI LIGHT YES.

ELEMENTS WITHOUT BEING, UH, AND THIS IS ONE WHERE, UM, THEY, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT REPLACING THE WINDOWS BECAUSE IF THEY HAD TO MAKE THE WINDOWS O UM, BIGGER, THEY CAN'T REUSE THE EXISTING WINDOWS.

THEY'D BE NEW WINDOWS, AND MOST LIKELY THEY'RE GONNA BE DOUBLE PANE WINDOWS IF THEY'RE IN WOOD, THEY CAN TELL ARE PROBABLY NOT ORIGINAL TO THAT PERIOD OF TIME.

SO WHILE THEY MAY TRY AND MATCH, YOU MAY HAVE THEM MATCH SOME OF THE FEATURES BECAUSE THEY ARE CONTEMPORARY WINDOWS.

SOMEONE LOOKED AT THEM CLOSELY, THEY'RE PROBABLY GONNA BE ABLE TO TELL THAT THEY'RE NEW WINDOWS AND NOT THE ORIGINAL WINDOWS.

THAT'S ONE WAY TO DIFFERENTIATE THEM.

BREAK TIME, YES.

I THINK YOU HAVE EVERYTHING.

YEAH, NO, THAT WAS A GOOD DISCUSSION.

I MEAN, SO ANY, SO WE, WE HAVE A LITTLE BREAK BUILT IN.

IT'S A LOT OF INFORMATION.

DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, UM, UP TILL THIS POINT?

[01:45:02]

SO THERE WAS A CASE EARLIER THIS YEAR WHERE THE SIGN WAS LANDMARKED, BUT THE BUILDING WAS NOT.

AND SO WE, OUR HANDS WERE TIED ON TRYING TO PRESERVE THAT PARTICULAR BUILDING.

IT WAS, IT, IT HAD ALL OF THE FEATURES, THE 1920S, THE ARCHITECT AND UH, THE CONTRIBUTING FACTOR WHEN THE NAVY WAS IN TOWN.

BUT SOMEHOW THERE WAS A DISCONNECT.

AND IT WAS SEVERAL YEARS AGO THAT, UH, WHEN IT CAME IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION, UH, WE REALLY COULDN'T TIE ANY CONDITION OTHER THAN THE SIGN WHICH THEY WANTED TO PUT ON A NEW BUILDING, WHICH IS NOT THE SAME AS THE EXISTING BUILDING AND THE LEVEL AND SO ON.

SO WE HAD A, A THOROUGH DISCUSSION, BUT IN, IN TERMS OF THE ROLE THAT THE CITY PLAYS IN THIS, UH, THE HISTORICAL LANDMARK, UH, INVENTORY AND DESIGNATIONS, IS THERE SOMETHING THAT WE ARE NOT DOING THAT WE SHOULD DO IN TERMS OF, UM, DOING MORE DUE DILIGENCE ON PROPERTIES THAT HAVE A SIGNIFICANT LANDMARK FEATURE? YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT I WILL DEFER TO STAFF AT BIP, BUT IN TERMS OF WHETHER OR NOT THIS, UM, COMMISSION CAN INITIATE LANDMARK NOMINATIONS, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT YOU MAY HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO IF YOU SEE A PROPERTY THAT YOU THINK SHOULD BE DESIGNATED.

UM, ONE OF THE CHART, ONE OF THOSE 10 DUTIES THAT YOU HAVE WAS, UM, TO SURVEY THE, THE CITY FOR HISTORIC RESOURCES.

SO THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO IS TO ENCOURAGE STAFF OR TO INITIATE THAT, SEE IF THERE'S FUNDING IN THE CITY BUDGET FOR ADDITIONAL SURVEYS SO THAT YOU CAN KNOW IF THERE ARE HISTORIC RESOURCES OUT THERE THAT YOU MAY NOT KNOW ABOUT THAT, UM, HAVEN'T BEEN SURVEYED AND IDENTIFIED.

AND THEN IT'S THE ACTIVE DESIGNATION PIECE.

I THINK I'LL ASK STAFF IF THAT IS PART OF, UM, LIKE HOW THAT HAPPENS, IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THIS BODY CAN INITIATE.

UM, YEAH, SO I THINK, UH, VICE CHAIR WAN, UM, I THINK WHAT YOU MIGHT BE TALKING ABOUT IS, UM, UH, HISTORIC RESOURCE SURVEYS, RIGHT? AND SO, UH, I THINK EVERYBODY HERE ON THE DICE KNOWS WHAT THOSE ARE, BUT I'LL JUST SORT OF MENTION IT FOR THE PUBLIC.

UM, WHAT THOSE ARE, ARE SURVEYS OF PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOODS, AREAS, UH, THAT HAVE AN HISTORIC CONCENTRATION OF HISTORIC BUILDINGS.

UM, AND IT'LL, IT CAN BE EITHER JUST SOMETHING OUT OF WINDSHIELD LEVEL, UH, WHICH MEANS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT OF ANALYSIS.

THEY GO OUT, THEY LITERALLY DRIVE, THEY LOOK THROUGH THE WINDOWS WINDSHIELD AND JUST JOT DOWN SOME NOTES.

AND THEN THERE'S OTHER DIFFERENT TYPES OF SURVEYS, WHICH ARE A LOT MORE INTENSIVE.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF RESEARCH DONE BEHIND IT.

UM, THEY LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF THE BUILDING, WHO'S LIVED THERE.

UH, THEY GO INTO THE DETAILS OF HOW MANY ALTERATIONS HAVE BEEN THERE.

UH, BUT I THINK, YEAH, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, UM, THAT THE CITY CAN DO HAS DONE IN THE PAST.

I THINK THERE'S ALWAYS SORT OF A BUDGET QUESTION, UH, THAT WE ALWAYS NEED TO FIGURE OUT IN THOSE CASES.

UH, BUT YEAH, THEY WOULD SORT OF DESIGNATE A CERTAIN AREA, UM, PICK THAT AND START DOING THAT SURVEY.

SO THAT'S TYPICALLY HOW SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD WORK.

AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT, UH, THE CITY HAS DONE IN THE PAST.

I THINK, UH, I THINK COMMISSIONER, UH, VICE CHAIRMAN GUAN, YOU WERE ALSO HERE FOR THE GRANT NEIGHBORHOOD OR THE HAM HISTORIC NEIGHBORHOOD.

UH, SO YOU'VE SEEN, UH, A VERY MICRO VERSION OF, OF THAT, UH, WHERE A SURVEY WAS DONE AND A NEW DISTRICT WAS, UH, DESIGNATED.

YOU KNOW, UM, TO SAY, TO RAISE YOUR HAND AND SAY, I, I, I DON'T AGREE WITH THIS, OR I CAN'T, I DON'T FEEL I CAN MAKE THAT FINDING AS A COMMISSIONER.

SO, SO REMINDER, YOU'RE A CERTIFIED LOCAL GOVERNMENT, SO THAT MEANS THAT YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET GRANTS FROM THE STATE, WHICH IS ACTUALLY FEDERAL MONEY AND APPLY THEM TO THINGS LIKE SURVEYS.

UM, SO NOT, NOT EVERY CITY IS A CERTIFIED LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

SO IT'S, IT KNOW, IT'S A WIND YOU POINTS AND POTENTIALLY FUNDING.

SURE.

WE GO AHEAD.

SO, SO, SO WE CAN KEEP GOING OR WE CAN TAKE A BREAK.

'CAUSE IT'S BEEN A LOT.

I NOTICED SOME PEOPLE PROBABLY HAD TO GO TO THE RESTROOM.

I SAY CONTINUE IF, IF THAT'D BE ALL RIGHT.

YEAH, THAT'S FINE.

SO THIS IS, UM, YOU KNOW, THE NEXT STEP IN THE, OUR LITTLE, UM, FLOW CHART ALONG THE BOTTOM IS REALLY TAKING THE EVIDENCE THAT YOU'VE GATHERED AND APPLYING THEM TO THESE FINDINGS THAT YOU NEED TO MAKE, RIGHT? SO, UM, STAFF IS GOING TO GIVE YOU A REPORT AND THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE LANGUAGE KIND OF JUSTIFYING THE FINDINGS, RIGHT? SO THAT'S THE BEST PLACE TO START.

UM, BUT AS A COMMISSIONER, YOU KNOW, DO YOU AGREE WITH THOSE FINDINGS? AND THAT'S KIND OF, I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE RUBBER REALLY HITS THE ROAD.

THAT'S YOUR OPPORTUNITY,

[01:50:01]

SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE, THAT'S THE BIGGEST PART OF THE ROLE OF WHAT YOU DO.

UM, SO DO YOU AGREE WITH THE FINDINGS AFTER APPLYING KIND OF ALL THE INFORMATION THAT YOU HAVE, WHICH IS THE, YOU KNOW, WHY SOMETHING'S HISTORIC AND WHAT THE PROJECT IS.

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU, YOU KNOW, THE, THE KIND OF ULTIMATE, UM, ANALYSIS PIECE IS THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR STANDARDS, AND THEN THE STANDARDS ALSO HAVE ASSOCIATED GUIDELINES THAT GO WITH THEM.

AND THEN YOU HAVE SPECIFIC, YOU KNOW, HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES, WHICH ARE TAILORED TO, UM, APPLY MORE TO YOUR CITY AND SPECIFIC NEIGHBORHOODS WITHIN YOUR CITY.

SO YOU'VE GOT THE C OF A APPLICATION AND THEN YOU GET COMMENTS AND, AND, UH, OTHER PEOPLE WEIGHING IN.

BUT IT'S REALLY, YOU KNOW, THE QUESTIONS ARE, WILL THIS PROPOSAL, UM, ADVERSELY AFFECT THE PROPERTY? AND, YOU KNOW, THAT BREAKS DOWN, YOU KNOW, DOES IT REMEDY, YOU KNOW, DANGEROUS, UNSAFE OR OTHER CODE ISSUES, WHICH MAY NOT NECESSARILY BE APPLICABLE? IS IT, IS IT STANDARDS COMPLIANT? AND AGAIN, THAT'S JUDGMENT, THAT'S DISCRETION.

THAT'S UP TO YOU.

AND DOES IT COMPLY WITH YOUR DESIGN GUIDELINES? AGAIN, THAT'S DISCRETION.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S UP TO YOU TO, UM, MAKE THAT DECISION.

YOU'RE, YOU'RE THE BODY THAT DECIDES, SO HERE ARE THE STANDARDS.

UM, YOU'VE GONE OVER THEM BEFORE.

UM, I WENT TO, SO, UM, A I A, THE AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF ARCHITECTS HAS A HISTORIC RESOURCES COMMITTEE, AND THEY GET, USUALLY WHEN IT'S NOT COVID, THEY HAVE A, THEY HAVE A, THEY CALL IT A COLLOQUIUM, UM, AND, UH, TALK ABOUT THINGS.

AND THEY, TWO, TWO YEARS AGO, THEY HAD ONE ON THE STANDARDS AND REALLY TALKING ABOUT THE STANDARDS AND ARE THEY STILL RELEVANT? AND, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD A VIDEO OF ONE OF THE ORIGINAL AUTHORS, AND THE ORIGINAL AUTHOR IS LIKE, THEY'RE MEANT TO BE FLEXIBLE.

THEY WERE NEVER MEANT TO BE, YOU KNOW, SUPER RIGID, BUT THEY'VE BEEN APPLIED IN THIS WAY AND THEY BECOME WRITTEN INTO SO MANY LAWS AND CODES THAT THEY BECOME THIS RIGID THING.

BUT HE WAS LIKE, THEY'RE MEANT TO BE FLEXIBLE.

THEY'RE MEANT TO BE APPLIED PROJECT TO PROJECT, TO PROJECT, UM, TO TAKE IN ALL THESE VARIABLES AND, AND REALLY THINK THROUGH SOME, SOME THINGS ARE GONNA WORK ON CERTAIN PROJECTS AND THEY'RE NOT GONNA WORK ON OTHER PROJECTS.

BUT I THINK THE, YOU KNOW, KNOW THE 10 THINGS, THE APPROPRIATE USE IS ONE.

THE SECOND IS THE PRESERVE THE HISTORIC CHARACTER.

SO THE SPACES, SPATIAL RELATIONSHIPS, FEATURES, MATERIALS, UM, NO FALSE HISTORICISM.

SO THIS IS, I'M GONNA GET ON MY COMMISSIONER, HIGH HORSE.

UM, WE HAD A COUPLE ARCHITECTS IN SOUTH PASADENA WHO WERE LIKE, I'M GONNA MAKE IT MORE VICTORIAN THAN IT IS NOW, OR I'M GONNA MAKE IT MORE CRAFTSMAN THAN IT IS NOW 'CAUSE IT'S CRAFTSMAN AND I CAN MAKE IT MORE RASSMAN.

AND IT'S LIKE, NO, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S FALSE HISTORICISM.

LIKE, DON'T DO THAT.

THAT DROVE ME CRAZY.

DRIVES ME CRAZY.

UM, THINGS CHANGE OVER TIME.

SO IT'S A FASCINATING, IT'S ACTUALLY FASCINATING TO, UM, REALLY THINK ABOUT WHY SOMETHING'S HISTORIC, UM, PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU START TO GET OUT OF THE ARCHITECTURE AND DESIGN.

BUT EVEN ARCHITECTURE AND DESIGN, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY CAN SHOW THE EXAMPLE WITH LIKE THE CHARLES MOORE RULE IS EDITION IN SAN FRANCISCO, BUT YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE THESE CHANGES AND THEY CAN GAIN SIGNIFICANCE, UH, IN AND OF THEMSELVES.

SO, YOU KNOW, MAKING SURE THAT STAYS IN THE FOREFRONT OF YOUR MIND.

UM, SO TWO AND FIVE ARE ABOUT PRESERVATION.

SO THOSE, THOSE KIND OF INTEGRITY ISSUES, YOU KNOW, THE MATERIALS, THE FINISHES, CONSTRUCTION TECHNIQUES AND CRAFTSMANSHIP SHOULD BE PRESERVED.

UM, THEN SIX, AND WE'LL TALK ABOUT THIS, UM, IN GUIDELINES, IS YOU REALLY, THE MANDATE IS TO REPAIR THINGS BEFORE YOU REPLACE THEM.

SO THIS IS ANOTHER QUESTION I LIKE TO ASK.

WELL, WE'RE GONNA SWAP OUT ALL THE WINDOWS.

IT'S LIKE, DO YOU REALLY HAVE TO SWAP OUT ALL THE WINDOWS? CAN YOU REPAIR THE WINDOWS AND MAKE THEM FUNCTION BETTER? UM, THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE, UM, GOOD QUESTIONS TO ASK.

AND THEN WHEN YOU REPLACE, YOU SHOULD BE MATCHING THE DESIGN, THE COLOR OF THE TEXTURES.

SO YOU SHOULD BE MATCHING THE WINDOW MUTTON PATTERNS AND THE, AND THAT SORT OF THING.

THEN THIS IDEA OF GENTLEST MEANS, SO YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THE RIGHT WAY TO PREP SOMETHING TO PAINT, OR WHAT IS THE RIGHT WAY TO CLEAN SOMETHING OR EVEN REPAIR SOMETHING? AND THAT TAKES A LITTLE TRIAL AND ERROR.

SO YOU SHOULDN'T JUST JUMP TO, OH, I CAN GET THE PAINT OFF BY SANDBLASTING.

LIKE, NO, YOU CAN GET

[01:55:01]

THE PAINT OFF IN OTHER WAYS TOO.

SO, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE REALLY SUPPOSED TO, TO USE THE GENTLEST MEANS POSSIBLE, WHICH MEANS IT SHOULDN'T, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO COST A FORTUNE, BUT YOU NEED TO AT LEAST TRY.

UM, AND THEN AID IS THAT IDEA OF PREHISTORY, YES.

TO PROTECT THINGS THAT MAY BE BURIED IN THE GROUND OR WE'VE FOUND STUFF BURIED INSIDE OF BUILDINGS.

UM, AND THEN THE LAST TWO ARE THE KIND OF ADDITIONS.

SO THE IDEA OF THINGS BEING DIFFERENTIATED YET COMPATIBLE, THAT'S A, AGAIN, THIS BALANCE.

AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, YOU GUYS DECIDE THAT DIFFERENT, DIFFERENT PLACES DECIDE THESE THINGS VERY DIFFERENTLY, UH, WHICH CAN BE A CHALLENGE FOR AN ARCHITECT, BUT, UH, THAT'S OKAY.

UM, AND THEN THE IDEA OF REVERSIBILITY.

SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A WHOLE NOTHER SET OF STANDARDS THAT ARE ABOUT RESTORATION.

SO STANDARD 10 EXISTS SO THAT AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE, 50 YEARS IN THE FUTURE, YOU'RE ABLE TO RESTORE SOMETHING BACK.

SO THINGS THAT YOU DO SHOULD BE REVERSIBLE, SO SOMEDAY YOU COULD RESTORE IT.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? ALRIGHT, I HAVE A QUESTION.

UM, SO YOUR, YOUR, UM, EXAMPLE OF FALSE HISTORICISM WAS DON'T MAKE SOMETHING THAT LOOKS VICTORIAN, LOOK MORE VICTORIAN, MORE VICTORIAN.

THE WAY WE TRADITIONALLY HAVE USED IT HERE IS WE, WE DON'T WANT TO ACT LIKE SOMETHING NEW IS FROM THE SAME PERIOD OF THE RIGHT.

ARE THOSE BOTH? YEAH, THERE.

THAT'S, THAT'S TRUE.

SO THERE, THERE ARE PLACES THAT REALLY LIKE NEW STUFF TO MATCH THE OLD STUFF.

THAT'S LIKE SANTA BARBARA, RIGHT? WE LIKE TO, I THINK, RIGHT? BUT I THINK WE TRY TO KEEP IT, WE TRY TO KEEP IT CLEAR WHAT'S NEW AND WHAT'S OLD.

AND I THINK THAT'S FAIR.

THAT'S THAT IDEA OF KIND OF BEING ABLE TO UNDERSTAND AND INTEGRITY AND KIND OF WHY THIS IS SIGNIFICANT WITHIN THE CONTEXT.

SO BEING ABLE TO IDENTIFY CHANGE IS, IS, IS A PERFECT, PERFECTLY REASONABLE WAY THAT IT'S DONE.

THERE ARE SOME, THERE ARE TIMES WHERE PEOPLE WILL SAY, WELL, IT'S A DIFFERENT CONSTRUCTION TECHNIQUE AND YOU KNOW, THE WINDOWS ARE OBVIOUSLY DIFFERENT.

UH, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN LOOK AT THE, THE LABEL ON THE INSIDE FACE OF THE JAM AND THERE BE A LABEL THERE THAT TELLS YOU IT WAS MADE IN NINE, YOU KNOW, 2005.

UM, AND PEOPLE INTERPRET IT THAT WAY.

AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT VARIES CAN VARY QUITE A BIT FROM COMMUNITY TO COMMUNITY.

AND THAT'S OKAY.

I THINK THAT'S OKAY.

I THINK IT'S THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT.

YOU'RE GONNA, YOU WANNA SAY SOMETHING? 'CAUSE WE DISAGREE? OH NO, NOT SO MUCH ABOUT DISAGREEING IS YOUR QUESTION ABOUT WHICH STANDARD.

UM, SO THE NEW ADDITION WOULD REALLY FALL UNDER STANDARD NINE.

THAT NEW CONSTRUCTION IS DIFFERENTIATED YET COMPATIBLE, RIGHT? SO THAT, THAT IS A WIDE RANGE.

WHAT DOES COMPATIBLE MEAN? HOW, HOW MUCH DOES IT LOOK LIKE THE HISTORIC BUILDING? UM, IT WOULD BE COMPATIBLE IF SOMETHING LIKE THAT LOOKS MORE LIKE IT WOULD BE ON THAT RANGE OF BEING MORE COMPATIBLE THAN DIFFERENTIATED.

YOU WANT SOMEWHERE, SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE.

UM, BOTH ENDS CAN BE ACCEPTABLE AS WELL.

IT'S THE, THEN YOU GET TO THE DETAILS, THE STANDARD THREE, NO FALSE HISTORICISM IS A BIT MORE ABOUT NOT PUTTING SOMETHING ELSE THAT'S, SAY YOU HAVE A VICTORIAN HOUSE, YOU'RE GONNA TAKE SOME OTHER ELEMENT FROM ANOTHER VICTORIAN HOUSE AND PUT IT IN THERE OR PUT A NEW ELEMENT.

UM, LIKE YOU'RE GONNA TAKE THE RIG BOARD AND PUT A LOT OF BRICK, YOU'RE JUST GONNA PUT BRICK A BRACK UP THERE BECAUSE YOU WANT IT TO LOOK MORE VICTORIAN, RIGHT? THAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF FALSE HISTORICISM.

THERE'S NO REASON TO DO THAT OTHER THAN, YOU KNOW, I WANT IT TO LOOK MORE VICTORIAN.

ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE THAT THAT BUILDING HAD THOSE ELEMENTS PREVIOUSLY.

APPLY TO, TO DIFFERENT COMPONENTS OF THAT.

SO THAT'S CHANGING THE, THE EXISTING BUILDING ITSELF VERSUS ADDING WHAT THE NEW ELEMENT MAY LOOK LIKE.

THAT'S PART OF THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIKE STANDARD NINE AND 10 IS DEALING WITH MORE OF THOSE NEW ELEMENTS THAT'S BEING, WHEREAS, UM, 3, 4, 5, 6, AND SEVEN IS PROBABLY DEALING WITH THE EXISTING RESOURCE, THE EXISTING BUILDING OR STRUCTURE THAT YOU HAVE.

AND ONE AND TWO REALLY ARE SORT OF THE BIGGER PICTURE.

THEY START WITH THOSE BECAUSE THEY'RE THE BIGGER PICTURE ELEMENTS.

IS THERE A NEW PROPOSED USE THAT'S HAPPENING? AND IN ORDER TO USE THAT, IN ORDER TO HAVE THAT NEW USE, IS IT CHANGING THE WHOLE RESOURCE SO MUCH THAT IT'S NO LONGER A HISTORIC RESOURCE? OR ARE YOU ALLOWING, IS THE NEW USE APPROPRIATE? THERE'S, IT'S BEING DEFINITELY REUSED, BUT YOU'RE NOT CHANGING IT SO MUCH.

THAT'S WHERE, AND TWO IS ALSO A BIG PICTURE OVERALL IS THE PROJECT PRESERVING THE HISTORIC CHARACTER OF THE BUILDING, THEN AGAIN INTO WHAT'S ABOUT THE BUILDING ITSELF? NINE AND 10 IS ABOUT NEW THINGS.

THAT'S SORT OF ONE WAY TO START TO BREAK IT UP, RIGHT? YEAH.

SO THE STANDARDS TIE BACK TO THE, YOU KNOW, WHAT MAKES SOMETHING HISTORIC AND DIFFERENT ONES

[02:00:01]

BUT IT'S SOMETHING I LIKE TO KEEP THAT IN THE BACK OF MY MIND.

'CAUSE AGAIN, IT'S LIKE WHAT MAKES THIS THING HISTORIC? AND THEN HOW DO THE STANDARDS AND HOW DO THE STANDARDS APPLY? SORRY, BAD BACK.

I DON'T LIKE BENDING OVER.

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, HERE, SO HERE'S THE KIND OF TWO, TWO EXAMPLES WHERE, YOU KNOW, ONE IS VERY DIFFERENT, VERY DIFFERENTIATED AT THE TOP.

THEY BOTH ARE ADDITIONS, UM, FAIRLY SIZABLE ADDITIONS AND THE ONE ON THE BOTTOM IS MUCH MORE COMPATIBLE.

UM, THEY'RE BOTH PROJECTS THAT WE'VE WORKED ON, BUT YOU CAN SEE, YOU KNOW, THE DIFFERENT, THE DIFFERENT ELEMENTS IN, UM, THE BERKELEY PUBLIC LIBRARY, WHICH IS THE BOTTOM ONE.

YOU KNOW, SLIGHT CHANGES TO THE WINDOW GRID, YOU KNOW, IT'S CLEAR IT'S OF A DIFFERENT TIME, BUT IF YOU, IF YOU'RE KIND OF DRIVING BY ANY GLANCE AT IT, YOU MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO TELL.

SO VERY COMPATIBLE.

WHEREAS THE, THE DISNEY FAMILY MUSEUM AT THE TOP, IT'S LIKE, YEAH, THAT'S DIFFERENT.

SO AND BOTH, BOTH WENT THROUGH A LOT OF REVIEW.

BOTH WERE ACCEPTED.

UM, YOU KNOW, THERE'S DIFFERENT WAYS TO SKIN THE CATS ON THESE THINGS.

SO, UM, TALKED ABOUT FLEXIBILITY, YOU KNOW, WE ARE, YOU ARE, YOU DO NEED TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT, UM, UH, BOTH ECONOMIC AND TECHNICAL FEASIBILITY FOR EACH PROJECT.

IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT, IT DOES MATTER.

UM, AND THEN THERE'S TRADE OFFS.

SO, YOU KNOW, ONE OF, ONE OF THE ISSUES WE GET INTO A LOT IS ADDING WINDOWS, LIKE ADDING WINDOWS AND STANDARD TWO.

AND SHOULD YOU ADD WINDOWS? SHOULD YOU NOT ADD WINDOWS? YES, IT, YOU KNOW, MIGHT INTERRUPT THE, SOME OF THE DEFINING FEATURES, BUT YOU KINDA NEED THE WINDOWS.

SO IT'S, YOU KNOW, WE, AND WE GET IN THE ARGUMENT, YOU KNOW, WE KIND OF ARGUE THESE THINGS ALL THE TIME INTERNALLY.

UM, BUT YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE DAY, UM, YOU KNOW, DO YOU HAVE THAT CHARACTER? YOU KNOW, DO YOU HAVE THAT INTEGRITY? CAN YOU TELL WHY THIS PLACE IS HISTORIC OR WHY THIS PLACE IS SIGNIFICANT WITHIN THE HISTORIC CONTEXT? AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S MULTIPLE WAYS OF DOING THAT.

SO THE STANDARDS COME WITH A SET OF GUIDELINES AND THE GUIDELINES ARE ALWAYS BEING LOOKED AT AGAIN.

UM, AND THEY REALLY ARE IN THE FORM OF RECOMMENDED AND NOT RECOMMENDED.

AND I THINK THESE ARE VERY HELPFUL.

UM, I USE THEM ALL THE TIME IN, IN MY WORK AND KIND OF UNDERSTANDING WHAT WE SHOULD DO.

BUT I THINK THEY'RE VERY HELPFUL IN EVALUATING PROJECTS BECAUSE THEY DO OFFER A RANGE OF SOLUTIONS.

UM, AND THEY'RE ORGANIZED IN A, IN A, UH, A, A FAIRLY DECENT WAY.

AND LIKE I SAID, THEY'RE PUBLISHING LIKE, YOU KNOW, FLOOD PLAIN ONES NOW, AND THEY HAVE SUSTAINABILITY ONES.

SO THEY'RE, THEY'RE THINKING, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST ENOUGH TO HELP US WITH SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH, LIKE SOLAR PANELS OR WIND TURBINES.

BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU NEED TO KIND OF IDENTIFY THEM AND, AND USE THEM.

BUT THEY'RE, IT'S GOOD TOO 'CAUSE YOU CAN JUST CITE THEM AND, UM, PULL THEM OUT.

BUT THE, THIS IS, THERE'S A HIERARCHY TO THEM, AND I THINK THIS GETS BACK TO THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, UM, REPAIR BEFORE YOU REPLACE.

SO THE FIRST PIECE IS TO REALLY GO THROUGH THAT IDENTIFICATION PROCESS AND, YOU KNOW, DETERMINE THIS IS A HISTORIC PLACE AND THEN DEFINE THOSE CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES SO THAT IT'S, IT'S EASY FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND.

THE NEXT ONE IS TO TAKE CARE OF THEM SO THEY DON'T FALL APART.

SO YOU PROTECT AND MAINTAIN THEM THEN, YOU KNOW, REPAIR.

SO THE WAY THESE RECOMMENDED AND NOT RECOMMENDED, THEY'RE ORGANIZED IN THIS WAY, SO IT'S HELPFUL.

UM, SO YOU KNOW, YOU REALLY SHOULD REPAIR THEM.

UM, IF NOT, YOU KNOW, REPLACE THEM, THEY SHOULD MATCH THE ORIGINAL.

BUT IF THEY'RE FREQUENTLY, THERE'S JUST MISSING FEATURE, LIKE THEY'RE GONE AND YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE.

IS IT, YOU KNOW, A COMPATIBLE OR APPROPRIATE, UM, NEW FEATURE THAT YOU'RE PUTTING IN.

BUT KIND OF WORKING YOUR WAY THROUGH THESE STEPS, AGAIN IS VERY HELPFUL FOR EVALUATING AND MAKING FINDINGS.

SO THAT'S THE KIND OF HISTORIC MATERIALS AND, AND FEATURES.

AND THEN THERE'S KIND OF THESE SENSITIVE CHANGES.

SO ALTERATIONS, UM, FOR DISABLED ACCESS, FREQUENTLY YOU HAVE TO MAKE ALTERATIONS, UM, CODE REQUIRED WORK.

SO AGAIN, ACCESSIBILITY, LIFE SAFETY, UM, RESILIENCE TO NATURAL HAZARDS, SUSTAINABILITY AND JUST KIND OF, YOU KNOW, ENHANCED, I LIKE TO CALL IT ENHANCED USE OR IMPROVE USE.

YOU MAY HAVE TO ADD A LITTLE BIT HERE AND THERE OR REDO AN INTEREST.

SO, YOU KNOW, THINKING ABOUT THESE, THESE ARE KIND OF THE, THIS IS THE VERY MUCH THE READER'S

[02:05:01]

DIGEST VERSION OF THE PREAMBLE TO THE STANDARDS, UH, THE REHABILITATION STANDARDS.

BUT IT'S, THEY'RE, IT'S A PRETTY GOOD WAY TO JUST THINK OF THINGS.

I'LL LET YOU DO THE DISTRICT, I'LL GO BACK ONE JUST SO THAT WE CAN TIE THIS ALL TOGETHER TOO.

SO THIS HIERARCHY IS, IS HOW THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR, UH, THOSE GUIDELINES, GOING BACK TO THIS IS ORGANIZED.

SO THEY WILL HAVE A SECTION, CAN KIND OF SEE THIS, THIS IS JUST ONE THEY LOOKED AT INTEREST IN PORCHES.

THIS, THIS EXAMPLE WE'RE GIVING, THEY START WITH IDENTIFYING, RETAINING AND PRESERVING.

SO THEY SAY WHAT'S RECOMMENDED FOR UNDER THAT AND WHAT'S NOT RECOMMENDED, AND THEY GO THROUGH EACH OF THOSE ASPECTS.

THE ONE THAT'S IN THE FOREGROUND TALKS ABOUT DESIGNING THE REPLACEMENT OF MISSING FEATURES.

SO IF THAT'S A PROJECT COMPONENT THAT'S BEING PROPOSED, YOU CAN GO AND LOOK UNDER THAT AND SAY, WHAT WOULD THEY RECOMMEND FOR, IF SOMEONE'S PROPOSING TO REPLACE A MISSING FEATURE, WHAT WOULD BE STANDARDS COMPLIANT AND WHAT MAY NOT BE.

UM, SO IT'S A HELPFUL WAY UNDERSTANDING THE HIERARCHY, KNOW WHERE TO GO LOOK, BUT THESE AGAIN, ARE RECOMMENDATIONS.

THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO BE PROJECT SPECIFIC, IT'S YOUR DISCRETION ON HOW YOU APPLY THEM.

AND THERE ARE MANY WAYS TO APPLY THEM AND YOUR, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT DESIGN GUIDELINES THAT EACH OF YOUR HISTORIC DISTRICTS HAVE REALLY TAKE THE STANDARDS AND START TO APPLY THEM MORE SPECIFICALLY TO EACH OF THESE DISTRICTS.

THEY'VE BEEN WORKED ON WITH STAFF AND WITH COMMUNITY MEMBERS TO WHAT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THAT DISTRICT.

UM, AND SOME OF THEM ARE SIMILAR, UH, BECAUSE THEY'RE SIMILAR PROPERTY TYPES AND SOME ARE DIFFERENT BECAUSE THE PROPERTY TYPES ARE VERY DIFFERENT OR THE STYLES ARE VERY DIFFERENT.

YOU KNOW, SOME NEIGHBORHOODS ARE VERY CONSISTENT IN STYLE AND SOME THAT ARE VERY DIFFERENT IN STYLE AND MASSING.

SO IT'S ALWAYS HELPFUL TO LOOK AT THOSE GUIDELINES.

UM, AND THEY ARE STILL ALL GUIDELINES.

THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, UM, IS HAPPENING NOW.

THEY'RE NOT, THEY'RE NOT OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS WHERE THEY ARE REQUIREMENTS OR THEY'RE, UM, ONES WHERE THERE'S NO DISCRETION INVOLVED.

DESIGN GUIDELINES, THERE IS DISCRETION.

THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS.

DOESN'T MEAN THAT EVERY PROJECT HAS TO MEET ALL OF THEM, BUT I THINK THEY'RE, YOU HAVE TO DECIDE WHEN TO HOLD IN LINE AND WHEN MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT, UM, BEING FLEXIBLE ON, OR MAYBE THAT'S NOT SOMETHING TO, UM, THAT IS GOING TO TAKE THE WHOLE PROJECT, BUT MAYBE WHERE CAN YOU FIND SOME BALANCE AND SOME, UH, COMPROMISE.

LET'S SEE.

SO WE HAD A COUPLE PAGES WHERE WE WANNA JUST, UM, SHOW YOU AGAIN, JUST SO YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE AND HOW TO GO FIND THEM.

THIS IS NOT READABLE.

I HAVE ANOTHER SLIDE THAT WE START TO LOOK AT SOME OF THESE.

UM, BUT THEY REALLY DO TAKE THOSE TENSE REHABILITATION STANDARDS, UH, SECRETARY OF STANDARDS AND START TO APPLY THEM.

THAT'S WHAT THESE NUMBERS ARE RELATED TO.

SO THIS IS, UM, A LITTLE BIT MORE READABLE ASPECT OF THOSE POINTS THAT WERE ON THE PREVIOUS PAGES.

THIS IS FROM THE BELMONT HEIGHTS HISTORIC DISTRICT, AND IT'S RELATED TO UPPER STORY EDITIONS.

SO THE, IT SAID THAT FOR, UH, THIS DISTRICT, UPPER STORY AND SECOND STORY ADDITION MAY BE ACCEPTABLE FOR SOME RESIDENTS.

SO IT'S SAYING IT'S NOT AN ABSOLUTE NO, BUT IT'S ALSO NOT AN ABSOLUTE YES.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO GIVE IT TO EVERYBODY, BUT IT'S SAYING THAT IT MAY BE FOR SOME RESIDENCES, UM, THAT WOULD FIT INTO THE DISTRICT.

THE SECOND ONE IS THE SIZE AND MASSING OF THE UPPER STORY ADDITION SHOULD BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE HISTORIC CHARACTER OF THE RESIDENTS.

THAT IS PRETTY MUCH STANDARD NINE, UM, FOR THAT COMPATIBILITY.

IT DOESN'T TELL YOU HOW TO MAKE IT COMPATIBLE, BUT IT JUST SAYS, UM, THAT THEY SHOULD BE COMPATIBLE.

BUT IT DOES TELL YOU THE SIZE AND MASSING.

SO GOING BACK TO THAT CHART A WHILE BACK ABOUT CHARACTER DEFINING FEATURES, SIZE AND MASSING ARE THOSE BIGGER PICTURE ELEMENTS WHERE, UM, THOSE COULD MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN A, IN A BUILDING, IN A PROJECT, IN A DISTRICT.

WHEREAS SMALLER SCALE ELEMENTS LIKE THE WOOD TRIM ON A WINDOW, THAT MAY NOT MAKE AS BIG OF AN IMPACT.

SO THE SIZE AND SCALE AND MASSING UP, UH, THE UPPER STORY ADDITION IS SOMETHING THAT COULD, UM, MAKE A, A STAND OUT IN A DISTRICT QUITE A BIT.

AND SO THAT'S WHERE THEY SHOULD BE COMPATIBLE.

UM, IF YOU GET SIZE AND MASSING WRONG, YOU CAN'T FIX, YOU CAN'T FIX IT.

YEAH, IT'S HARD TO FIX THOSE THAN SOME OF THE OTHER ELEMENTS.

UM, AND I THINK THE, THE GRAPHICS THAT WE'RE SHOWING HERE TOO ARE AGAIN, ARE FROM THE GUIDELINES AND THEY'RE SHOWING A COUPLE EXAMPLES AT THE TOP THAT ARE NOT RECOMMENDED THAT WHERE THE ADDITIONS, THE SCALE AND MASSING MAY BE TOO LARGE AND TOO PROMINENT, BUT THE BOTTOM ARE SHOWING ONES WHERE THERE IS A SECOND STORE ADDITION, THEY'RE JUST NOT AS LARGE AS NOT AS PROMINENT.

THEY'RE STILL THERE, BUT THEY'RE

[02:10:01]

LESS VISUALLY INTRUSIVE.

SO THEY WOULD, UH, COMPLY WITH STANDARD NINE.

AND THAT RECOMMENDATION, UH, THE THIRD BULLET POINTS, THE UPPER STORY EDITION SHOULD BE PLANNED AND CONSTRUCTED IN A WAY THAT DOES NOT INVOLVE REMOVING, OBSTRUCTING OR DAMAGING AN EXISTING HISTORIC FEATURE.

SO THAT GOES BACK TO SOME OF THE STANDARDS FIVE ABOUT PRESERVING HISTORIC MATERIAL SO YOU'RE NOT REMOVING, UM, OR OBSTRUCTING THEM.

BUT ALSO STANDARD 10, THAT IF THE ADDITION'S TAKEN AWAY, MUCH OF IT CAN BE, UH, UH, RESTORED BACK, AND THAT IS STILL THERE.

BUT THIS ONE IS ALSO ONE THAT CAN BE TRICKY.

IT SAYS THAT SHOULD SHOULD BE PLANNED AND CONSTRUCT IN A WAY THAT DOES NOT INVOLVE REMOVING, OBSTRUCTING OR DAMAGING.

BUT THERE'S GONNA BE SOME CASES WHERE THAT YOU CAN'T GET AROUND THAT YOU MAY HAVE TO REMOVE SOME ELEMENTS.

SO THE QUESTION IS, HOW MUCH IS BEING REMOVED? IS THAT ACCEPTABLE? IS THAT SOMETHING THAT, UM, YOU CAN SAY OVERALL THE PROJECT STILL RETAINS, UH, INTEGRITY OR THE BUILDING STILL RETAINS INTEGRITY THAT STILL MEETS THE STANDARDS.

THAT IS YOUR DISCRETION.

AND THAT'S WHERE, AGAIN, ONE COMMISSIONER MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION THAN THE OTHER.

UH, YOU MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION THAN STAFF, AND IT'S SORT OF TALKING BACK THROUGH AND EXPLAIN TO THE, UM, TO THE APPLICANT IF YOU WANNA SEE THEM DOING MORE THINGS OR IF YOU THINK IT'S ACCEPTABLE THAT THEY'VE COME UP WITH A GOOD COMPROMISE.

UM, THE FOURTH ONES, ALL ADDITIONS SHOULD BE COMPATIBLE WITH YET DISTINGUISHED FROM THE ORIGINAL BUILDING STYLE.

SO THAT'S THE OTHER PART OF STANDARD NINE.

THAT'S THE DIFFERENTIATION AND COMPATIBILITY PIECE AS WELL.

AGAIN, IT DOESN'T TELL YOU MUCH MORE THAN THAT.

IT'S TO YOUR DISCRETION, UH, HOW TO BE COMPATIBLE, YET DISTINGUISHED FROM, UH, I THINK THOSE, UH, THERE ARE SOME TRICKS OF THE TRAY, SOME THINGS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, UM, AND THAT THE, THE, UM, SECRETARY OF INTERIOR GUIDELINES PROVIDE.

SO THINGS LIKE GOING BACK TO THE ADDITION OF THE BERKELEY PUBLIC LIBRARY, WHERE THERE WAS A HYPHEN IN BETWEEN WHAT'S NEW AND WHAT'S OLD AS ONE WAY TO DISTINGUISH WHAT'S NEW AND TO MAKE IT SET BACK SOME.

SO THOSE ARE SOME ELEMENTS TO THINK ABOUT.

HOW DO YOU, UM, BE CLEAR ABOUT WHAT'S NEW, UH, NEWLY ADDED.

AND THE LAST ONE IS, UH, ADDING A SECOND STORY EDITION TO AN EXISTING SECOND SECONDARY DWELLING AT THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY IS NOT PERMITTED BY CURRENT ZONING CODE.

SO THIS IS A RARE, UH, MUST IN YOUR GUIDELINES WHERE THEY'RE TELLING YOU SOMETHING IS NOT ALLOWED BY ZONING CODE.

SO AGAIN, THAT THAT IS CLARITY BOTH FOR YOU AND FOR THE APPLICANTS.

IF SOMEONE CAME HERE AND WANTED TO DO A SECOND STORY EDITION, UM, TO EXISTING SECONDARY DWELLING, THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE GUIDELINES THAT SAYS THAT'S NOT ALLOWED BY ZONING CODE AS LISA AT THE TIME THAT, UM, THE GUIDELINES WERE PUT TOGETHER THAT MAY CHANGE.

THERE'S NEW STATE LAW THAT'S HAPPENING FOR VARIOUS THINGS THAT, UM, GUIDELINES MAY HAVE TO CHANGE AND, UM, GET UPDATED OVER TIME TO APPLY FOR THAT.

I THINK THAT'S ALL I HAVE HERE, BUT WE CAN STOP HERE AND ASK, UH, THIS MAY COME UP QUITE A BIT FOR ALL OF YOU.

IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSIONS THAT YOU HAVE ABOUT THESE OR ISSUES THAT HAVE COME UP WITH SOME OF THESE GUIDELINES.

WELL, FOR EXAMPLE, TODAY WE HAD A, A GUIDELINE THAT SAID IT DISCOURAGED, UM, SITE ADDITIONS.

AND, AND DISCOURAGED IS AN INTERESTING WORD FOR ME BECAUSE, UM, WHEN IS THAT TIPPING POINT WHERE IT'S A NO VERSUS A YES? AND SO THAT FINE LINE IS ALWAYS A, A QUESTION, UM, FOR ME.

AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS ON HOW TO LOOK AT DISCOURAGED.

I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY IT, THE ADDITION WAS SMALL ENOUGH THAT IT DIDN'T, UM, IN THIS PARTICULAR EXAMPLE TODAY, IT DIDN'T, UM, SEEM TO BE, UH, A NO, YOU KNOW, IT, IT SEEMED ACCEPTABLE, I GUESS, IN MY MIND PERSONALLY.

BUT, BUT I GUESS WHEN YOU SEE DISCOURAGED OR NOT RECOMMENDED, UH, I MEAN THAT'S A, THOSE ARE INTERESTING OPEN-ENDED SORT OF DISCUSSIONS.

I GUESS THEY ARE, THEY'RE ABOUT TO GIVE YOU DISCRETION, , AND TO DECIDE.

NO, THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.

I, I THINK THOSE ARE THERE TO, TO ONE TO TELL THE APPLICANT, HEY, YOU BETTER THINK CAREFULLY ABOUT THIS BEFORE YOU BRING IT FORWARD.

UM, AND, YOU KNOW, BUT THERE ARE INSTANCES WHEN, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN PULL IT OFF.

AND I, I THOUGHT YOU DID A GOOD JOB WITH THE ONE EARLIER.

YOU KNOW, IT WAS, IT WAS VERY MODEST.

SO, YEAH.

AND COMMISSIONER PIZZA, I JUST, UM, ONE OF THE THINGS I KIND OF WANT TO WEIGH ON, I WEIGH IN ON, UH, YOU BROUGHT UP THAT EXAMPLE FROM EARLIER TONIGHT.

UH, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT WE LOOKED AT, AND I, I BELIEVE WE PUT IT IN OUR REPORT, WAS, UM, YOU KNOW, IT WAS A SMALL LOT.

UH, SO THEY CAN'T GO TO THE FRONT SETBACK IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU CAN'T TOUCH ANYTHING THERE.

AT THE BACK, UH, THERE WAS A GARAGE, IT WAS A

[02:15:01]

DRIVEWAY.

UM, THE FLOOR PLAN WAS KIND OF SPLIT INTO LIVING AREAS OVER HERE AND BEDROOMS OVER ON THIS SIDE.

SO I THINK THAT KIND OF ALSO LED TO OUR RECOMMENDATION.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S NO, AND I THINK MAYBE, UM, HOPEFULLY THE COMMISSION IS UNDERSTANDING.

I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT, THERE'S SORT OF A BIG TOOLBOX THAT YOU HAVE AND THERE'S NOT A WHOLE LOT OF LIKE CLEAR MUSTS.

UM, BUT I THINK THINGS LIKE THAT WERE THINGS THAT WE FACTORED INTO OUR RECOMMENDATION.

AND, AND SO WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING AT A PROJECT, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S OKAY TO LOOK AT THOSE.

I MEAN, IT WAS A, YOU KNOW, RELAT.

SO YEAH, I THINK IT'S OKAY TO LOOK AT THOSE.

AND I THINK ONE OTHER THING I'LL JUST KIND OF ADD TO THAT IS, IS THAT THAT WAS ALREADY A PART OF THE BUILDING THAT WAS PROJECTING OUT.

UH, SO IF IT WAS EXTENDING OUT JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE, YOU KNOW, IT WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE A FAMILY A LITTLE BIT MORE LIVING AREA.

AND SO WE FELT THAT WAS REASONABLE AND THAT WAS PART OF THE RECOMMENDATION.

SO THOSE ARE ALSO JUST THINGS TO THINK ABOUT AS WELL.

AND THAT'S WHY IT'S A DISCOURAGED, NOT A PROHIBITED.

RIGHT? RIGHT.

IT'S EVERY SITUATION'S DIFFERENT.

THERE'S GONNA BE SITUATIONS WHERE THERE ISN'T MUCH CHOICE, AND THAT IS THE BEST PLACE TO PUT IN ADDITION, OR FOR WHATEVER REASON.

THAT'S WHY IT'S YOUR DISCRETION.

BUT IT'S ALSO LOOKING AT THAT, IS THAT A BIG IMPACT TO THE HISTORIC CHARACTER OF THE BUILDING? AND YOU MAY DECIDE IT'S NOT, AND IT'S HELPFUL TO THINK THROUGH THAT AND TO, TO DISCUSS THAT AND TO BE ON THE RECORD THAT YOU DON'T THINK THAT IS THAT BIG OF AN IMPACT THAT THE CHARACTER OF THE HISTORIC BUILDING IS STILL RETAINED AND THE CHARACTER OF THE DISTRICT, RIGHT? YEAH.

BECAUSE YOU'RE LOOKING AT THIS AS A CONTRIBUTOR TO THE DISTRICT.

SO IT'S TAKING THOSE COUPLE STEPS BACK AND ULTIMATELY BEING ABLE TO SAY YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THE FINDINGS, BECAUSE YOU CAN SAY YES WHILE IT'S DISCOURAGED.

THE ULTIMATE ASPECT OF THAT IS THAT IT'S NOT IMPACTING THE CHARACTER OF THE BUILDING IN SUCH A WAY.

NOW, IF THAT WAS IN THE DISTRICT, IN THE DISTRICT, IN THE DISTRICT, IT'S A DISTRICT.

SO IT'S, NOW, IF THAT WAS LIKE A 500 SQUARE FOOT ADDITION, THAT MAY BE A DIFFERENT SITUATION WHERE THAT DISCOURAGE REALLY DOES COME INTO PLAY, AND IT IS A LARGE ENOUGH ADDITION TO IMPACT THE RESOURCE AND THE DISTRICT.

AND THAT'S WHERE, YOU KNOW, STAFF MAY HAVE WORKED WITH THIS, THE APPLICANT TO GET THE DOWN TO THAT SIZE.

BUT YOU CAN ALSO, UM, TALK ABOUT THAT IF YOU FELT THAT IT STARTED TO HIT THAT TIPPING POINT.

BUT THAT'S, I, I THINK THAT'S FAIR.

THAT'S A FAIR THING TO ONE DISCUSS TOO.

LIKE IF YOU FEEL THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY'VE GONE TOO FAR, YOU KNOW, IT DOESN'T, FOLKS DON'T HAVE TO BE UNANIMOUS.

I MEAN, IF YOU'VE, IF YOU'RE IN WITHIN YOUR, YOU KNOW, UNDERSTANDING OF EVERYTHING IN YOUR EXPERIENCE HERE, IF YOU THINK, YOU KNOW, WE DISCOURAGE THIS, IT SAYS, IT SAYS SO IN THE GUIDELINES, AND I DON'T FEEL LIKE I CAN SAY THAT WE'VE, YOU KNOW, THAT WE'VE MET THESE DESIGN GUIDELINES.

THAT'S, THAT'S A FAIR THING TO SAY.

I CAN'T, I CAN'T AS A COMMISSIONER, NOT AS A COMMISSION, BUT AS A COMMISSIONER, CAN'T MAKE THAT FINDING.

THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S A FAIR THING TO, TO SAY.

AND THEN YOUR OTHER COMMISSIONERS MAY SAY, I DISAGREE WITH YOU.

AND, AND THAT'S THEIR POSITION AS WELL.

THEY MAY BE ABLE TO MAKE THOSE FINDINGS THAT THEY DON'T THINK IT DOES CHANGE THE CHARACTER.

AND IT'S HELPFUL, I THINK, SOMETIMES FOR THE APPLICANTS AND FOR THE STAFF TO HEAR SOME OF THAT DISCUSSION.

I HAVE A QUESTION.

HOW, HOW APPROPRIATE IS IT FOR US TO CONSIDER NEIGHBORS OPINIONS? SO WE WILL HAVE SOME PROJECTS THAT SEEM LIKE THEY SAIL THROUGH, BECAUSE NONE OF THE NEIGHBORS ARE COMPLAINING AND OTHER ONES THAT WE HAVE PROBLEMS WITH, BECAUSE THE NEIGHBORS, WE, THEY ARE COMPLAINING.

I, I, I THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S YOUR DUTY TO LISTEN, RIGHT? AND AGAIN, YOU, YOU HAVE DISCRETION AS FAR AS THE FINDINGS.

SO THIS IS WHERE DISCUSSION GETS GOOD TOO.

YOU KNOW, THE NEIGHBOR MADE A FAIR POINT, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF THIS PART OF THE FINDING OR THIS PART, YOU KNOW, YOU WANNA TIE IT BACK TO THE FINDINGS, NOT BECAUSE, UH, I'M UPSET 'CAUSE SOMEBODY CAN LOOK INTO MY YARD, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE DESIGN GUIDELINES SAY, YOU KNOW, X, Y, AND Z, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE NEIGHBOR IS SAYING.

SO I THINK IT'S ALWAYS, I THINK YOU SHOULD LISTEN, BUT YOU SHOULD BE TYING IT BACK TO THE, THE FINDINGS AND THE REQUIREMENTS.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? BECAUSE YOU, THAT'S, I MEAN, YOU'RE COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED TO SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, HERE'S THE, HERE'S THE PIECE.

COMMISSIONER SFI, IF I COULD JUST ALSO JUST WEIGH IN HERE REALLY QUICK.

THOSE CASES, PUBLIC COMMENT, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT YOU SHOULD TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION IF IT'S SOMETHING, UH, SEPARATE IN TERMS OF A PUBLIC COMMENT WHERE, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, IT'S SOMETHING ABOUT MAYBE LOSING PARKING.

UM, I, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD POINT TO BRING UP.

UM, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS ON, ON THE STAFF, UH, SIDE THAT WE WANNA BRING UP IS, IS OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, YOU, YOU TAKE INTO ACCOUNT, UM, ALL THE MATERIALS, UH, REPORTS, STAFF REPORTS, UH, TECHNICAL ANALYSIS, BUT ALSO PUBLIC COMMENT.

UH, SOMETIMES THE PUBLIC COMMENT, UH, YOU KNOW, IS, YOU KNOW, RELATES BACK TO THE FINDINGS OR RELATES BACK TO MODIFYING, UM, SOME SORT OF ARCHITECTURAL DETAIL THAT IS IMPORTANT TO THE BUILDING.

AND SO IN

[02:20:01]

I THINK WE'VE HEARD THAT IN THE PAST FROM, FROM THE PUBLIC.

UH, I THINK ANOTHER ONE, UH, WAS JUST REALLY ABOUT LIKE LIGHT, UH, LOSING LIGHT BECAUSE OF A MAYBE OF A SECOND STORY EDITION.

UH, THOSE UNFORTUNATELY THAT THIS COMMISSION CAN'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT, THAT'S SOMETHING MORE THAT HAPPENS AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION LEVEL.

UM, YOU KNOW, SO I THINK IT'S REALLY KIND OF TYING IT BACK TO, YOU KNOW, THE COMMISSION'S JURISDICTION, BUT ALSO IF THE PUBLIC COMMENTS HAVE ANY RELATIONSHIP TO, TO THE FINDINGS THAT YOU NEED TO MAKE.

THAT'S OUR NEXT SERIES OF SLIDES IS, YEAH, SORRY, WHAT YOU HEAR.

AND, AND I KNOW FOR ME PERSONALLY, I THINK WHEN THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION DOES PUBLIC COMMENT OR SOMEONE THAT'S A BODY THAT'S REPRESENTING A WHOLE DISTRICT, I THINK THAT FEELS LIKE IT HAS A LITTLE MORE WEIGHT TO IT THAN JUST THE NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR SOMETIMES.

BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S, UM, THOUGHT OF AS, I MEAN, IT'S STILL PUBLIC COMMENT REGARDLESS, BUT I, I, I JUST KNOW THAT NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS, WHEN THEY SHOW UP AND THEY SPEAK TO ME, THAT SORT OF HAS SOME, SOME BEARING ON THE, ON THE DECISION.

I, I MEAN, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.

THIS IS YOU, OUR FIRST SLIDE INTO THIS DISCUSSION DECISION WHEN IT COMES TO YOUR, TO THE COMMISSION IS TALKING ABOUT WHAT ALEJANDRO WAS JUST SAYING, WHAT WE WERE SAYING, THAT YOU'RE, YOU'RE GONNA HEAR FROM LOT OF STAKEHOLDERS, UM, THAT COME BEFORE YOU.

YOU'RE GONNA HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT AND FROM NEIGHBORS AND FROM OTHERS.

AND, UM, IT'S UP TO YOU TO BALANCE ALL THOSE THINGS THAT YOU'RE HEARING AND THINK ABOUT HOW THAT APPLIES TO WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN MAKE THOSE FINDINGS.

SO THIS IS A GRAPHIC OF JUST TRYING TO SAY THE DIFFERENT, YOU'RE HEARING FROM A LOT OF, UH, A LOT OF PIECES.

THE PUBLIC IS ONE, AND THAT THERE'S GONNA BE DIFFERENT VIEWPOINTS FROM DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE PUBLIC.

AND YOU'RE RIGHT, THAT YOU'RE, THERE'S GONNA BE THOSE IMMEDIATE NEIGHBORS THAT MAY HAVE A POINT OF VIEW THAT MAY BE DIFFERENT FROM THE, UM, THE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATION AS A WHOLE, THAT MAY BE DIFFERENT FROM A REAL ESTATE COMMUNITY OR FROM OTHERS THAT HAVE OTHER, UM, INTERESTS IN OTHER STAKEHOLDERS.

SO YOU CAN LISTEN TO ALL OF THEM, TAKE THOSE COMMENTS IN AND SEE HOW YOU WANNA WEIGH, UM, THEIR COM, THEIR, THEIR POINT OF VIEWS, UH, WHILE YOU'RE STILL TRYING TO MAKE THOSE FINDINGS.

THE SAME WITH THE APPLICANT.

THE APPLICANT WILL ALSO HAVE THEIR POINT OF VIEW OF WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING TO DO, WHAT THEY SAY THEY NEED TO DO, WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.

UM, AND YOU'LL HEAR FROM 'EM IF THEY'RE THE PROPERTY OWNERS, THEIR DEVELOPERS, THEIR OWNERS, THEIR, UM, THEIR TENANTS VERSUS OWNERS, UH, AND THEY MAY HAVE A DESIGN TEAM OR OTHER TEAM MEMBERS WITH THEM.

SO HEAR ALL THOSE PIECES.

AND THEN YOU HAVE YOUR CITY STAFF THAT HAS WORKED WITH, UM, SOME OF THE APPLICANTS.

THEY, YOU HAVE THEIR STAFF REPORT IN, IN FRONT OF YOU AS, UH, LOOKING, SEEING HOW THE STAFF HAS EVALUATED THE PROJECT.

YOU'LL ALSO HEAR FROM THE CITY ATTORNEY IF THERE'S ANYTHING PROCEDURAL THAT YOU NEED TO DO.

AND SOMETIMES YOU MAY HEAR FROM OTHER DEPARTMENTS.

SOMETIMES YOU MAY HAVE A PROJECT WHERE IT'S UNDER THE PURVIEW OF THE PARKS DEPARTMENT OR FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE IN THE CITY THAT ALSO HAVE THEIR OWN POINT OF VIEW.

AND SO YOU'RE TAKING ALL THIS IN AND YOU'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, YEAH.

HOW DOES THAT CHANGE WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN MAKE THESE FINDINGS? IT REALLY DOES COME BACK TO THAT, UM, WHILE THE NEIGHBOR, YOU KNOW, IT MAY IMPACT THEIR LIGHT, UM, NEXT DOOR, OR THEY FEEL LIKE SOMEONE'S HOVERING OVER THEM.

IS THAT WITHIN YOUR CHARGES, WHETHER OR NOT WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING IS, DOES IT AFFECT THE HISTORIC CHARACTER? ARE THERE ASPECTS OF THAT THAT DOES CHANGE THE CHARACTER OR NOT? YOU CAN TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION, CONSIDERATION SOME OF THE NEIGHBOR'S POINT OF VIEW, BUT THAT'S NOT YOUR ONLY CHARGE.

YEAH, I, I ALWAYS THINK OF THE, YEAH, THERE'S A PURPOSEFUL STRUCTURE TO THE HEARINGS AND, YOU KNOW, YOU RECEIVE INFORMATION AND A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT TIMES, BUT YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU CLOSE THAT PUBLIC COMMENT, THAT'S YOUR TIME.

YOU, YOU, THIS IS YOUR TIME TO DISCUSS THE FINDINGS AND TO MAKE, FIND, YOU KNOW, TO DISCUSS WHAT'S BEEN PROVIDED, ALL THE DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF IT.

AND THEN THE REINFORCE THE FINDINGS HAVE BEEN MADE BY STAFF OR, YOU KNOW, UM, EXPLAIN WHY YOU THINK THEY'RE RIGHT OR WHY YOU THINK THEY'RE WRONG.

BUT IT'S YOUR TIME.

IT'S, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF ALL THE HEARINGS AND EVERYTHING, IT'S THE COMMISSION'S TIME TO DELIBERATE AND MAKE A DECISION.

AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO, YOU KNOW, UM, THINK OF IT THAT WAY.

IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S THE TIME TO REALLY GET INTO THE WEEDS AND SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN GET A LITTLE NUANCED, BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE THAT, THAT TIME TO DISCUSS IT .

AND THAT'S THE TIME TO THINK ABOUT ALL THOSE POINTS OF VIEWS AND ALL THE THINGS THAT'S COME BEFORE YOU.

MM-HMM, , THAT'S THE TIME TO TALK ABOUT IT.

UM, AND IF A NEIGHBOR RAISES A GOOD POINT

[02:25:01]

AND I'LL SPEAK, YOU KNOW, AS A FORMER ADVOCATE, THAT WAS PART OF WHAT WE DID TOO, WAS TO COME TO PUBLIC HEARINGS FROM LIKE CONSERVANCY FROM OTHER ADVOCACY GROUPS.

AGAIN, THEY HAVE A SPECIFIC POINT OF VIEW AS WELL, AND TRYING TO SWAY YOUR DECISIONS.

SO IT'S UP TO YOU TO TAKE THAT AND DECIDE IT.

ARE THOSE THE THINGS THAT CHANGES YOUR MIND? I THINK THAT'S MY NEXT, OH, GOING BACK ONE THAT CHANGES YOUR MIND.

YOU KNOW ABOUT ALL THE THINGS, ALL THE HOMEWORK YOU'VE DONE UP TO THIS POINT.

YOU'VE COME TO THE HEARINGS WITH SOME BACKGROUND ALREADY.

YOU PROBABLY HAVE ALREADY DECIDED, UM, WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE ABOUT THE PROJECT.

YOU MAY HAVE SOME QUESTIONS, UH, THAT YOU WANTED CLARIFICATION ON, AND YOU'VE PROBABLY FAILED TO ASK APPLICANT THAT AND THE STAFF THAT, AND THEN YOU'RE HEARING ALL THESE INPUT FROM EVERYBODY ELSE.

SO DOES THAT CHANGE YOUR MIND? DOES THAT SWAY YOU? AND GOING BACK TO THOSE FINDINGS, DOES IT SWAY YOU BECAUSE IT'S BASED ON SOMETHING WITHIN YOUR PURVIEW, WITHIN THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION GUIDELINES AND STANDARDS, AND TYING BACK TO YOUR FINDINGS, DOES IT CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT THE, UH, FINDINGS THAT YOU CAN MAKE? BUT IN REGARDS TO THE A DU ISSUE, WE'VE HAD MANY CASES WHERE THE NEIGHBOR PRIVACY IS, IS BEING, UH, SUBJECTED TO THE NEIGHBOR THAT'S BUILDING UP AS WELL AS PARKING, AND AGAIN, ADUS CREATING, YOU KNOW, ADDITIONAL UNITS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME IMPACTING THE NEIGHBORS STREET PARKING AND SO ON.

BUT IN ESSENCE, OUR HANDS ARE TIED BECAUSE OF STATE LAW OR, OR THE, THE CURRENT GUIDELINES WITH THE, WITH THE, WITH OUR PLANNING IN THE CITY.

SO, YOU KNOW, GRANTED OUR INTENTIONS MAY BE GOOD, BUT THERE'S REALLY NOTHING THAT WE COULD, UM, AFFECT THAT DECISION.

CORRECT.

THAT'S CORRECT.

IN THAT, UM, PARKING'S NOT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS BEFORE YOU FOR REVIEW THE NUMBER OF PARKINGS.

UM, AND IN FACT, I THINK THE STATE LAW ACTUALLY ALLOWS HISTORIC, UM, ADUS AND HISTORIC DISTRICTS NOT TO HAVE ADDITIONAL PARKING SO THAT THERE'S A CHANCE TO, UM, INCENTIVIZE SOME OF THOSE IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS.

UM, AND IT'S ACTUALLY SO THAT PEOPLE AREN'T THINKING THEY HAVE TO DEMOLISH, UM, GARAGES IN ORDER TO DO THAT.

UM, IT WAS PURPOSELY IN THERE, AND THERE IS AN IMPACT ON THE DISTRICT.

YOU CAN RECOGNIZE THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE, UM, COMING BEFORE YOU AND, AND PLEADING WITH YOU ON THAT, YOU CAN RECOGNIZE THAT THEY ARE, THEY HAVE THAT POINT OF VIEW, BUT THAT IT'S NOT WITHIN YOUR PURVIEW TO BE ABLE TO SAY YOU HAVE TO HAVE ADDIT ADDITIONAL PARKING, UH, AND AGAIN, STATE LAW LIMITS, UM, WHAT YOU CAN REVIEW ON ADUS AS WELL.

SO YOUR LIMIT IS, IS IT APPROPRIATE, DOES IT CHANGE THE HISTORIC CHARACTER HMM.

OF THE DISTRICT? DOES IT FIT INTO THAT? UM, DOES IT AFFECT THE HISTORIC RESOURCE ITSELF AND THE DISTRICT? SOME, SOMETIMES.

SOMETIMES, SOMETIMES YOU MAY BE ABLE TO SLIDE INTO THAT, BUT OFTEN NOT.

BUT IT'S GOOD TO, YOU KNOW, JUST SAY WHAT YOU SAID TO THE PUBLIC, YOU KNOW, WHEN THIS IS OVER, THESE ARE THE FINDINGS WE NEED TO MAKE, AND WE DON'T FIND ON PRIVACY AND WE DON'T FIND ON THAT.

UM, AND YOU KNOW, THE STATE IS MAN, AGAIN, YOU HAVE, YOU HAVE, UH, THE ROLE TO KIND OF, UM, YOU KNOW, UM, WORK WITH THOSE MANDATES THAT COME DOWN FROM ABOVE.

UH, IT'S, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT'S THE 10TH, UH, THING IN YOUR, IN YOUR ORDINANCE, UM, AS FAR AS DUTIES.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO SAY THAT TO THE PUBLIC, YOU KNOW, AS PART OF THE DISCUSSION AT THE END, HEY, YOU KNOW, WE SYMPATHIZE WITH YOU, BUT YOU KNOW, THERE'S A HOUSING CRISIS AND YOU KNOW, THE STATE HAS CHANGED THE LAWS AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S CHANGED HOW WE HAVE TO REVIEW THIS APPLICATION AND WE DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY OVER PARKING ANYMORE.

AND THAT'S FAIR.

THAT'S A GOOD THING.

SO I HAVE A QUESTION FOR MAYBE EITHER YOU OR OR STAFF.

IF THERE'S A HISTORIC DISTRICT AND A HOUSE HAS A VERY LARGE SETBACK AND IT'S SET TOWARDS THE REAR AND SOMEONE WANTS TO COME IN AND DO AN A DU IN THE FRONT, DO WE HAVE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS THAT WOULD PROHIBIT THAT? OR ARE THEY PROHIBITED UNDER STATE LAW IN THOSE SITUATIONS? UM, I, I CAN PROBABLY TAKE THAT ONE.

UM, SO YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE ARE QUITE A FEW EXAMPLES WHERE, UH, WE HAVE PROPERTIES THAT HAVE A BUILDING THAT'S REALLY PUSHED BACK ALL THE WAY BACK IN, UH, TOWARDS THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY.

AND THERE'S THIS HUGE FRONT LAWN THAT'S BUILDABLE.

UH, THE SHORT ANSWER IS, IS THAT YES, WE, WE HAVE ALLOWED THEM BEFORE.

UH, SO ADUS CAN BE DONE, UH, WHERE IT STILL PRESERVES THE EXISTING HISTORIC STRUCTURE THAT'S SET AT THE REAR, UH, BUT THEN DO AN A DU AT THE FRONT OF THE, OF THE, OF THE PROPERTY OR IN THE MIDDLE OF

[02:30:01]

THE PROPERTY OR WITHIN THE SETBACKS.

AND THAT'S BECAUSE STATE LAW ALLOWS FOR A SECONDARY UNIT REGARDLESS.

CORRECT.

A DU AND A JUNIOR A DU, RIGHT? SB NINE, WHY NOT THROW THAT INTO, BUT YOU DO, BUT YOU ARE, SORRY.

YOU ARE ALLOWED TO, YOU ARE ALLOWED TO CREATE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE ALLOWED TO DO THAT.

AND THERE ARE BETTER WAYS TO PUT IT A DU IN FRONT THAN OTHERS.

AND THERE ARE WAYS TO KIND OF REGULATE THAT IF YOU CAN'T DENY IN THE A DU, BUT YOU CAN SHAPE HOW THEY DO IT.

SO, SO THEORETICALLY IN THAT CASE, THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS WOULD NEED TO, UM, FOLLOW SORT OF THE DESIGN GUIDELINES AND THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE DISTRICT TO TRY TO RETAIN SOMETHING WITH IT, RIGHT? RIGHT, RIGHT.

IF THAT'S HOW THE STANDARDS ARE WRITTEN, THAT'S WHERE LOOKING AT HOW OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS ARE WRITTEN IN DIFFERENT, UM, INSTANCES AND HOW THEY'RE APPLIED.

I'LL SAY, YOU KNOW, MY KNEE JERK REACTION TO THOSE IS NO, YOU CAN'T PUT SOMETHING IN FRONT OF THE HISTORIC BUILDING, BUT THAT MAY NOT BE THE ANSWER OR THAT MAY NOT, YOU MAY NOT BE ALLOWED TO SAY THAT.

YOU HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO ACCOMMODATE THE HOUSING.

SO HOW DO YOU DO THAT? HOW DOES IT FIT INTO THE DISTRICT? RIGHT.

SO IF IT'S MORE THAN 800 SQUARE FEET, WE STILL WOULD NOT HAVE DISCRETION.

I BELIEVE YOU HAVE SOME DISCRETION.

YOU JUST CAN'T DENY THE A DU IF IT'S MORE THAN EIGHT, 800 FEET THOUGH, THEY, THEY COULD STILL DO, THEY COULD STILL DO SOMETHING.

UH, SO I THINK HER CODE ALLOWS UP TO WHAT THE 1200? YES.

THERE ARE ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS THAT CAN BE APPLIED ABOVE 800 SQUARE FEET, BUT THE INTENT IS TO SHAPE THE A DU, NOT TO PROHIBIT IT.

ANY RELATIONS TO QUESTION ABOUT DESIGN STANDARDS FOR ADUS IN HISTORIC DISTRICTS? THERE HAVE BEEN MUNICIPALITIES LIKE OAKLAND THAT HAVE REALLY GOTTEN RECEIVED GRANTS TO EVALUATE BEING ABLE TO PUT THAT TOGETHER.

UM, AND WE HAVE HAD A CHALLENGING TIME FINDING MUNICIPALITIES THAT ARE SUCCESSFULLY IMPLEMENTING THAT SOUTH PASADENA.

THANK YOU, .

IT'S STILL EARLY DAYS.

I THINK WE'RE STARTING TO FIGURE OUT HOW DO YOU, HOW DO YOU WRITE THOSE DESIGN STANDARDS WHERE IT HAS TO BE APPLIED OBJECTIVELY WHEN EVERY SITUATION'S DIFFERENT, ESPECIALLY IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT, SOMETIMES WE FIND THAT THEY END UP BEING TOO STRICT IN, OR THEY END UP BEING STRICT INTERPRETATION OF THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, BECAUSE THAT'S ONE WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR OBJECTIVE AND THEIR, UM, THEY CAN APPLY EVERYWHERE.

SO IT MAY BE LIKE, AS LONG AS THE HISTORIC RESOURCE STILL REMAINS ON THAT PROPERTY, THAT'S OBJECTIVE IN THAT SENSE.

I HAVE A QUESTION ON THAT.

UM, SO IF IT'S FACING FRONT AND IT'S A NEW STRUCTURE, THAT THAT WOULDN'T BE CONSIDERED AN INFILL BECAUSE IT'S AN A DU COR, CORRECT? I MEAN, BECAUSE THERE'S ALREADY A ANOTHER STRUCTURE ON THE PROPERTY, IT'S NOT LIKE AN INFILL, LIKE STARTING FROM SCRATCH, RIGHT? THAT'S CORRECT.

IT'S A SECONDARY USE.

SO I KNOW THERE'S BEEN ISSUES IN THE PAST WHERE THERE'S A 90 DAY THING AND THEN THE A DU GETS IMMEDIATELY APPROVED.

SO THAT WOULD BE A BIT SCARY TO BE ON THE FRONT, WHICH IS PROBABLY WHAT YOU WERE GETTING.

6 0 6, EXCUSE ME.

UM, SO IS THAT WHAT WE'RE TALKING, IS THAT, IS THAT WHY YOU BRING THE NO, I WAS JUST BRINGING IT UP AS A DISCUSSION POINT FOR, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE DIS DISCUSSION AND DECISION IN A LANDMARK DISTRICT.

UM, BECAUSE OF ALL OF THE ISSUES RELATED TO STATE LAW, JUST GETTING YOUR, YOUR THOUGHTS AND CONCERNS AND WHETHER OR NOT WE ACTUALLY HAD THE ABILITY TO REJECT IT IF IT WAS NOT 800 SQUARE FEET OR LESS.

BECAUSE THERE ARE STATE EXEMPTIONS THAT IF IT'S AN 800 SQUARE FOOT A DU OR LESS, YOU KNOW, IT'S PRETTY MUCH APPROVED.

WELL, THAT'S THE SHAPING.

SO YOU CAN RIGHT, YOU CAN SAY, WELL, NO, IT'S ALL, IT'S ALSO, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T REALLY DISAPPROVE THEM.

YOU CAN'T SAY NO, BUT YOU CAN CRACK THAT.

YOU CAN'T SAY NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE AN A DU, BUT YOU CAN SAY YOU CAN'T HAVE THAT A DU.

CORRECT.

STANDARDS CAN BE APPLICABLE TO SHAPE THE A DU TO THE POINT THAT, UM, OR THE CONSULTING TEAM PROVIDED, BUT NOT TO DISAPPROVE IT.

BUT, BUT I, I THINK THIS COMMISSION IS INTERESTED IN HEARING, CAN YOU SAY NO TO THAT, A DU AND I'M HEARING THE ANSWER IS NO, WE CANNOT SAY NO TO THE A DU, BUT WE CAN SAY, DO A BETTER JOB.

IS THAT ACCURATE? MISS CITY ATTORNEY ? SO WE, WE CAN DOUBLE CHECK.

UM, AND THERE'S ACTUALLY MORE GUIDELINES WITH REGARDS TO THE NEXUS OF ADUS AND HISTORIC PRESERVATION NOW THAN A FEW YEARS AGO.

UM, OUR UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THRESHOLD FOR 800 SQUARE FEET AND ABOVE, SO ONCE YOU HAVE AN A DS 800, ONE SQUARE FEET, IS THAT ADDITIONAL DEVELOPMENT

[02:35:01]

THE FOCUS IS STILL ON PERMITTING THE, THE UNIT.

AND THEN THE FLIP SIDE OF THAT IS THAT THERE'S MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENTS DEPENDING ON THE BEDROOM COUNT FOR THE A DU.

SO I BELIEVE IT'S A THOUSAND SQUARE FEET FOR TWO PLUS BEDROOMS. UM, SO THERE'S OVERLAPPING REGULATIONS THAT GENERALLY WILL WEIGH IN THE DIRECTION OF ALLOWING AN A DU TO HAPPEN.

WHAT THAT A DU ULTIMATELY LOOKS LIKE IS WHERE THAT DISCRETION CAN COME IN.

BUT AGAIN, THE INTENT IS NOT TO REJECT THE A DU OUTRIGHT, BUT TO MAKE IT BE THE BEST POSSIBLE A DU BOTH FROM A ZONING AND A DESIGN PERSPECTIVE.

PLEA PLEASE.

YOU CAN, THANK YOU.

YOU HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF CONTROL OVER PLACEMENT, AND THAT'S WHERE SOME OF THE, WELL, IT'S NOT AN INFILL, UH, PROJECT.

THERE MAY BE SOME OF THE GUIDANCE RELATING TO INFILL THAT YOU CAN THINK ABOUT, UM, AS A NEW CONSTRUCTION IN A HISTORIC DISTRICT, I WOULD THINK THAT THAT'S WHERE YOU CAN SHAPE SOME OF IT.

THE, THE KIND OF PIGGYBACK ON THAT QUESTION, IT, IT APPEARS THAT THE STATE IS TRYING TO STREAMLINE THIS PROCESS TO A POINT WHERE WE'RE NOT EVEN GONNA BE ABLE TO, UH, SEE THESE, THESE CHANGES OR, OR, OR CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS IN FRONT OF THE COMMISSION ANYMORE.

IT'S GONNA BE BASICALLY A RUBBER STAMP AND, UH, COMPLETION.

SO ARE, ARE THEY ACTUALLY GONNA BE TAKING THIS DISCRETION AWAY FROM US IN TERMS OF THE WAY THAT THE STATE HAS BEEN MANDATING THIS HOUSING, UH, ELEMENT? THEY, THEY ALREADY HAVE IT, IT TENDS TO BE MORE ON THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD DISCRETION THAT'S BEING TAKEN.

THAT IS CHANGING.

THAT IS BECAUSE THOSE, THEY ARE USING THE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS SO THAT THEY CAN BE, UM, PROJECTS CAN BE APPROVED AT STAFF LEVEL.

IF THEY ARE OBJECTIVELY APPLIED, THAT MEANS THERE IS NO DISCRETION ANYMORE.

IT DOESN'T GO TO SOMETHING LIKE AN ARCHITECTURAL OR DESIGN REVIEW BOARD, THE HISTORIC, UH, HISTORIC PRESERVATION REVIEW.

THAT STILL, THAT HASN'T BEEN TOTALLY TAKEN AWAY, MY UNDERSTANDING.

BUT THEY, THEY HAVE TO BE DESIGNATED.

SO BEFORE IT WAS KIND OF A QUA DEFINITION OF HISTORIC RESOURCE WHERE THINGS THAT DIDN'T NECESSARILY NEED TO BE DESIGNATED, NOW THINGS HAVE TO BE DESIGNATED.

YEAH, THERE'S SO MANY NEW STATE LAWS THAT THEY, THEY APPLY TO HISTORIC RESOURCES IN DIFFERENT WAY AND DIFFERENT LEVELS OF HISTORIC RESOURCES.

UM, BUT AGAIN, WHAT COMES TO YOU TENDS TO BE RESOURCES THAT ARE ALREADY DESIGNATED.

THEY'VE GONE THROUGH THAT, THAT AFFIRMATIVE PROCESS OF GETTING LISTED VERSUS SOMETHING THAT WAS SURVEYED BUT NOT LISTED.

SO THOSE, SOME OF THOSE RESOURCES MAY NOT HAVE ANY DISCRETION FOR REVIEW ANYMORE.

UH, IN TERMS OF SOME OF THE HOUSING REQUIREMENTS, IT ALSO DEPENDS ON THE PROJECTS.

SO ADUS ARE VERY SPECIFIC TYPE OF PROJECTS THAT'S TRYING TO DO MORE HOUSING.

THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN DEMOLISHING A BUILDING TO BUILD NEW HOUSING.

SO SOME OF THAT DISCRETION STILL REMAINS.

BUT THIS POINT, I THINK FOR YOUR REVIEW OF DESIGNATED, UH, LANDMARKS AND, AND PROPERTIES OF HISTORIC DISTRICTS FOR CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS, YOU STILL HAVE THAT AUTHORITY JUST NOT FOR ADUS OF A CERTAIN SIZE, BUT, BUT YOU CAN WORK ON THESE OBJECTIVE STANDARDS.

RIGHT? THAT'S, THAT'S PERFECTLY OBJECTIVE.

AND THAT'S, TO ME, THAT'S THE CRITICAL POINT.

AND THAT'S WHERE YOU CAN SAY, IF YOU HAVE ROOM IN THE BACK BUILD MUST BE BUILT IN THE BACK.

UM, IF YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DON'T HAVE ROOM IN THE BACK AND YOU HAVE TO BUILD IN THE FRONT, THEN IT HAS TO BE POSITIONED IN SUCH A WAY WHERE YOU'RE NOT OBSCURING, YOU KNOW, KEY FEATURES.

RIGHT? SO, SO THERE'S WAYS TO CREATE THOSE OBJECTIVE STANDARDS SO THE MINISTERIAL REVIEW CAN HAPPEN AND, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE STILL, YOU KNOW, WORKING TO PRESERVE HISTORIC DISTRICTS AND RESOURCES, BUT IT'S, IT'S A DIFFERENT, IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT APPROACH THAN IT USED TO BE, AND IT'S STILL IS FINDING ITS FOOTING.

UM, YOU KNOW, THE REALITY IS THE TIME, THE TIME LIMIT, YOU GUYS MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO IT, BUT A LOT OF CITIES ARE NOT ABLE TO MAKE THE 60 DAYS.

THEY JUST CAN'T, THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH STAFF, THEY DON'T HAVE THIS, THEY DON'T HAVE THAT.

AND THERE'S THAT, THAT'S BEING LOOKED AT AT TIMEFRAME.

YOU'RE NOT THE ONLY ONE STRUGGLING WITH IT.

YEAH, YEAH.

NO, IT'S EVERYBODY.

AND THERE'S SOME PRETTY GOOD, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ALSO ADDITIONAL TRAINING OUT THERE.

SO LIKE THE CALIFORNIA PRESERVATION FOUNDATION HAS BEEN DOING KIND OF SPECIFIC TRAINING ON THESE OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS.

SO, AND THEY'RE ONLINE.

SO I THINK THAT'S PRETTY MUCH OUR PRESENTATION.

IT WAS COMING BACK TO, OH, AS YOU'RE WRAPPING UP A HEARING, PUBLIC COMMENTS AND THEN TRYING TO MAKE YOUR DECISION, YOU KNOW, WITH, IS IT WITHIN YOUR AUTHORITY? THAT WAS THE ONE WE JUST SPENT SOME TIME TALKING ABOUT.

HOW DO YOU SHAPE IT WOULD BE WITHIN YOUR AUTHORITY.

ADUS MAY NOT BE IN TERMS OF DENYING A DU, BUT

[02:40:01]

UM, BUT THEN IT COMES THAT TO, WE CAN SPEND A LITTLE TIME TALKING ABOUT CONDITIONS AND WHETHER OR NOT, UM, AMONG YOUR DISCUSSIONS, ARE THERE ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO, UM, IMPOSE, WHETHER IT'S REQUIRE CONDITIONS OR SUGGESTIONS WHERE MAYBE THEY'RE TRYING TO WORK SOMETHING OUT WITH THE, UM, WITH CITY STAFF THAT, UM, IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT IT'S A HARD, FAST REQUIREMENT THAT YOU WANT TO SEE, BUT YOU WANNA SEE THEM DO SOMETHING BETTER AND THAT YOU CAN DIRECT STAFF TO ASSIST WITH THAT.

THAT GIVES A LITTLE BIT OF A LOOSER ELEMENT.

UM, BUT ALSO THIS, COMING BACK TO THIS DISCUSSION AMONG YOURSELVES, YOU MAY HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS AND MAY HAVE DIFFERENT CONDITIONS THAT YOU MAY WANT TO PUT ON IT THAT OTHERS MAY OR MAY NOT DISAGREE, UH, AGREE WITH YOU OR DISAGREE WITH YOU.

SO IT'S A DISCUSSION AMONG YOURSELVES, UM, AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO SUPPORT YOUR FINDINGS, TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION.

AND I THINK WE WANNA BRING BACK JUST THAT MYTH.

AND REALITY WANTS TO KEEP IN MIND AS YOU'RE, AS YOU'RE MAKING THESE DECISIONS ABOUT PROJECTS, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS REASONABLE, WHAT CAN BE DONE.

THERE ISN'T THAT ONE RIGHT APPROACH.

AS MUCH AS WE ALL LIKE TO THINK THAT WE ALL AGREE ON THINGS, UM, IT'S THE, CAN YOU GET TO THAT GOOD ACCEPTABLE PROJECT THAT REALLY YOUR MANDATE IS, IS IT STILL A HISTORIC RESOURCE AT THE END OF THE DAY? ARE YOU STILL RETAINING THAT HISTORIC CHARACTER? ARE YOU ALLOWING SOME CHANGE, BUT NOT SO MUCH THAT YOU'VE LOST THAT CHARACTER? AND MAYBE THERE IS MORE CHANGE THAT CAN HAPPEN WHILE YOU STILL RETAIN THAT HISTORIC CHARACTER.

SORTS OF EXAMPLES THAT YOU GAVE.

SO HOW DO YOU GET TO THAT POINT? AND HOW DO YOU HAVE THAT DISCUSSION WITH APPLICANTS AND STAFF AND, AND THE PUBLIC WHO WILL HAVE OPINIONS ABOUT WHO, WHO ARE NOT AS TRAINED AS ALL OF YOU, OR, UM, OR LOOK AT CLOSELY THE SAME WAY THAT YOU ARE FOR SOME OF THE SAME, UH, SAME ISSUES AND SAME IDEAS THAT NEED TO BE APPLIED.

AND I THINK THAT IS PRETTY MUCH IT.

UH, WE'RE GONNA DO A LITTLE BIT OF, UH, SUMMARY, BUT, UH, I THINK WE'VE TAKEN UP YOUR TIME.

UM, WE'VE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT HOW THIS ALL FITS INTO THE BIGGER PARTS OF CITIES, UH, THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT AND ALSO CITY GOALS.

YOU'VE, YOU'RE HEARING THAT THAT MANDATE FOR HOUSING AND TYING INTO HISTORIC RESOURCES AND FINDING THAT BALANCE OF WHERE YOU CAN HAVE INPUT, BUT WHERE YOU MAY NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAVE INPUT, BUT ALSO HOW ALL THAT TIES TOGETHER, MAKING THOSE FINDINGS, THE HOW YOU GET TO THOSE FINDINGS AND BEING ABLE TO SUPPORT, UM, BEING ABLE TO MAKE THESE FINDINGS.

AND COMING BACK TO, WE WERE USING AS A SHORTHAND THAT, UM, NOT ADVERSELY ANY ADVERSELY AFFECT THE PROPERTY, BUT AGAIN, GOING BACK TO WHAT MAKES THAT PROPERTY HISTORIC, UM, AND IS A PROPERTY AFFECTING THAT BASED ON IF IT'S SIGNIFICANT FOR ITS ARCHITECTURE, YOU MAY BE LOOKING AT IT MUCH MORE CLOSELY FOR, IT IMPACTS THE ARCHITECTURE, BUT IF THE SIGNIFICANCE IS RELATED TO HISTORICAL CULTURAL SIGNIFICANCE AND NOT SO MUCH TIED TO A, TO THE WINDOW PATTERN OR TO, UH, THE STOREFRONT CHANGE, BUT OVERALL THE CHARACTER OF THE BUILDING, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE LIKE TO SAY, AND THE NATIONAL REGISTER, UM, PROVIDES GUIDANCE FOR INTEGRITY AND CHANGES.

IF SOMEONE FROM THAT PERIOD OF TIME, TIME STILL RECOGNIZES THE BUILDING, THEN IT STILL HAS INTEGRITY IN THAT SAME WAY.

IT MAY NOT HAVE THAT SAME ORIGINAL WINDOW MATERIAL, BUT CAN THEY STILL RECOGNIZE IT? THAT'S JUST SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND FOR, UM, RESOURCES WHERE THE SIGNIFICANCE MAY NOT BE TIED TO ARCHITECTURE.

AND TO THINK THAT YOU CAN'T SEE, THIS IS A SUMMARY, A LOSS OF INFORMATION, BUT JUST TRY TO SUMMARIZE THE, THE THINGS THAT YOU CAN COME BACK TO AS A REFERENCE FOR THOSE FIVE ASPECTS, JUST BUILDING ON EACH OTHER, UM, AND KEEPING THOSE IN MIND AS YOU'RE TRYING TO BREAK THAT DOWN.

LOOK AT A PROJECT, UM, THE RESOURCE TYPE, THE SIGNIFICANCE, UNDERSTANDING THE PROJECT, WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED TO THE EXISTING BUILDING VERSUS WHAT'S BEING ADDED NEW, AND HOW YOU APPLY THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS IN DIFFERENT WAYS FOR THOSE DIFFERENT PROJECT COMPONENTS.

AND THEN ALL YOUR DISCUSSIONS THAT YOU'VE BEEN HAVING, WE'VE HEARD YOU HAD SOME GREAT COMMENTS AND SOME DISCUSSIONS.

YOU'RE, YOU'RE DEALING WITH THINGS THAT HAVE NO EASY ANSWERS OR HAVE NO ONE RIGHT ANSWER.

SO IT'S THINKING THROUGH ALL THAT.

UM, AND THEN JUST FOR NEXT TIME WE COME BACK TO YOU AGAIN, I THINK AT YOUR NEXT HEARING, HOPEFULLY IT'S OFFSITE, UH, UM, AND WE'LL HAVE A CHANCE TO HOPEFULLY APPLY SOME OF THESE TO MORE CASE STUDIES, AND WE KINDA WANNA HEAR FROM YOU OF WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE OR WHAT WE CAN PREPARE IN ADVANCE THAT MAYBE YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE MORE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT.

I HEARD ADUS, , I DUNNO IF ABOUT THE DESIGN VERSUS THE, I I I HAVE A COMMENT.

I, I AM UNCLEAR ABOUT HOW WE ARE TO GO ABOUT DEVELOPING THESE STANDARDS.

LIKE, SO FOR EXAMPLE, WITH THE ADUS MAKING STANDARDS OR MAKING RULES THAT SAY YOU, YOU KNOW, IF IF YOU HAVE A CHOICE, YOU, YOU HAVE TO PUT IN THE BACK THOSE

[02:45:01]

HOW DO WE GO ABOUT THAT? IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE WILL TALK ABOUT OR, YEAH, DISCRETIONARY DESIGN STANDARDS WOULD BE SOMETHING WOULD BE ADOPTED, UM, IN PLACE IN OUR MUNICIPAL CODE FOR REVIEW.

SO WE DON'T HAVE THEM TODAY, BUT THAT'S HOW THOSE ARE IMPLEMENTED.

AND IS THAT SOMETHING WE DO AS, AS THE COMMISSION HERE? SO I IDEALLY YOU HIRE SOMEBODY TO KIND OF GIVE YOU MOST OF THE WORK.

AND THEN, SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE, FOR EXAMPLE, PREPARED BY STAFF MIGHT COME TO YOU AS A STUDY SESSION OR GO TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION FOR A RECOMMENDATION TO THE CITY COUNCIL FOR ADOPTION.

I SEE.

AND ACTUALLY, IT'S PART OF THE QUESTION FOR STAFF, JUST GENERALLY, IF THE CITY IS WORKING ON OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS, NOT NECESSARILY FOR HISTORIC RESOURCES, BUT IN GENERAL AS PART OF OUR TRANSITION FROM TITLE 21 TO TITLE 22, UM, AND IN REFLECTION OF THAT REQUIREMENT AT THE STATE LEVEL NOW, ANY DESIGN STANDARDS THAT ARE INCORPORATED INTO THE ZONING REGULATIONS ARE OBJECTIVE OR ARE BEING CONVERTED TO BEING OBJECTIVE.

SO WE'LL BE AWAY FROM SHOULDS AND COULD AND MAIZE TO MUST, UM, TO HAVE THAT, UM, OR SHAWL, UH, TO HAVE THAT, UM, CLARITY, UM, ACROSS THE BOARD SO THAT THEY CAN BE APPLIED MINISTERIALLY WITHOUT DISCRETION IN THE SAME WAY FOR ANY PROJECT THAT COMES ACROSS THOSE STANDARDS.

SO WE COULD LIFT SOME UP AS EXAMPLES.

WE ARE NOT WORKING ON ANY SPECIFIC, UM, ADDITIONAL STANDARDS AT THIS TIME.

UH, PART OF WHAT WE'RE ALSO NAVIGATING IS THAT, UM, A TD IN PARTICULAR HAS, UM, EMPHASIZED THE NEED FOR STREAMLINING HOUSING DEVELOPMENT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

SO IF WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THAT IN THE CONTEXT OF A DUS, BUT THAT IS VERY MUCH, UM, THEIR LINE OF REASONING ACROSS THE BOARD FOR ANY TYPE OF NEW DEVELOPMENT.

UM, SO THE MORE LIMITED DESIGN STANDARDS THAT WE HAVE, UM, THE EASIER IT IS TO BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH A DU MANDATES, UH, GOING FORWARD.

SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE ALSO JUGGLING, UM, ACROSS THE BOARD FOR OUR TEAM.

SO IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY'RE BEING WORKED ON, BUT THERE ARE SOME DESIGN STANDARDS THAT ARE, THAT'S BEING INCORPORATED INTO, OR YOUR EXISTING GUIDELINES ARE BEING TURNED INTO STANDARDS FOR SOME, SOME OF YOUR DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS.

SO WE JUST COMPLETED, UH, A COMPREHENSIVE UPDATE TO TITLE 22 REGULATIONS AT CITY COUNCIL LAST WEEK.

SO WE JUST FINISHED THAT PROCESS FOR THE NEW ZONING DISTRICTS THAT ARE BEING APPLIED IN THE CITY.

YEAH, I THINK THESE ARE, THESE ARE MOTOR ZONING STANDARDS THAT WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AT AT THE MOMENT.

SO SORT OF THE HOUSING ELEMENT THAT WAS ADOPTED NOW GOING TO THE ZONING ABOUT HOW TO IMPLEMENT THE HOUSING ELEMENTS YES.

IS UPDATING THE ZONING CODE.

AND THROUGH THAT PROCESS, SOME OF THE DESIGN STANDARDS, OBJECTIVE DESIGN STANDARDS WERE IMPLEMENTED IN THERE.

THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY FOR HISTORIC DISTRICTS.

NO.

YEAH, FOR ME, IF IT IS, IF WHAT, WHAT, UH, COMMISSIONER BODAK THE EXAMPLE SHE BROUGHT OFF, IF THAT COMES TO US IN OCTOBER, YOU KNOW, I, I DON'T FEEL LIKE WE'RE PREPARED FOR THAT AND I DON'T, AND I DON'T HEAR, I DON'T, I DON'T HEAR THAT, THAT THERE IS AN ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION CURRENTLY.

SO HOW DO WE RESPOND IF THAT WERE TO COME UP IN OCTOBER? THE GREAT NEWS IS IT'S NOT COMING IN OCTOBER .

SO THAT'S, MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING THE SILVER LINING I HAVE FOR YOU.

BUT I, I THINK WHAT WILL BE HELPFUL TODAY IS THIS WAS MEANT TO BE A MUCH MORE BROADLY BASED, UH, TRAINING.

AND WE'VE DUG IN ON SOME VERY SUBSTANTIVE, NUANCED ISSUES.

THE WONDERFUL PART ABOUT HAVING THIS TRAINING CONTINUE AT OUR NEXT MEETING IS NOW KNOWING THAT THIS IS WHERE WE'RE FOCUSED, WE CAN COME BACK AND KIND OF HAVE GREATER OPPORTUNITY FOR A CONVERSATION AROUND THAT EXACT SITUATION WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

YOU'RE NOT SEEING MANY OF THESE BECAUSE OF OTHER CHALLENGES AROUND A DU PRODUCTION THAT THE CITY IS FACING, BUT WE CAN COME BACK WITH THAT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION AS WELL.

SO THAT'S A TOPIC THAT WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT, CLOSER LOOK AT AND TRY TO HAVE A DISCUSSION AROUND.

SO IF I MAY ASK THAT AT A FUTURE MEETING, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THIS NEXT TRAINING, BUT THAT WE TALK ABOUT AND GET A REVIEW OF ALL OF THE HISTORIC CONTEXT STATEMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN, UH, APPROVED BY THE CITY, AND THEN, UM, UNDERSTAND WHAT THE LIST OF RESOURCES WERE IDENTIFIED WITHIN THOSE FOR POTENTIAL CONSIDERATION LATER ON.

SO MEANING WITHIN YOUR HISTORIC CONTEXT STATEMENTS, THERE MAY HAVE BEEN WINDSHIELD

[02:50:01]

SURVEYS.

UM, IT WOULD BE INTERESTING, I THINK, FOR THE COMMISSION TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THOSE WINDSHIELD SURVEYS WERE.

AND, UH, IT MAY ANSWER THE QUESTION THAT VICE CHAIR ASKED EARLIER IS, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE GO ABOUT LANDMARKING? SURE.

WELL SPOKEN COMMISSIONER BODAK.

WELL, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, UH, STAFF CAN TAKE A LOOK AT AND, UH, WE'LL FOLLOW UP WITH, UH, SPECIFIC, UM, TIMELINES.

YEAH, I, I'M NOT SUGGESTING AT ALL THAT THAT BE PART OF THE NEXT TRAINING, BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I WOULD LIKE TO, AS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TRAINING, IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HAVE TRAINING ON ALL OF THE VARIOUS HISTORIC CONTEXT STATEMENTS THAT YOU'VE DONE, UH, BECAUSE I THINK YOU'VE DONE THEM IN A VERY PROGRESSIVE MANNER AND THE COMMISSION MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN THOSE.

I, I CERTAINLY WOULD.

UM, AT THIS TIME, ARE THERE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS TO OUR PRESENTERS? JOHN AND FLORA? THANK YOU FOR YOUR FINE WORK TODAY AND LOOK FORWARD TO OUR NEXT WORKSHOP ON THE 29TH.

AND AFTER THIS, THERE'LL BE A POP QUIZ.

NO, JUST KIDDING.

UM, UH, AT, AT THIS TIME, I WOULD LIKE TO OPEN UP THE DISCUSSION TO PUBLIC COMMENT.

IF THERE ARE ANYBODY THAT WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT ON THIS PARTICULAR AGENDA ITEM, IF THERE ARE NONE VIRTUALLY.

IF YOU ARE JOINING US VIRTUALLY AND YOU'D LIKE TO PROVIDE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THIS ITEM, PLEASE USE THE RAISE HAND FUNCTION AT THIS TIME.

THERE APPEARS TO BE NO FURTHER PUBLIC COMMENT.

THANK YOU AGAIN, COMMISSIONERS.

IS THERE ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS REGARDING OUR PRESENTATION TODAY? IF NONE, MADAM CLERK, WE CALL FOR THE VOTE.

MOTION CARRIES.

AT THIS TIME, WE'LL TAKE NON AGENDA ITEMS FOR PUBLIC COMMENT, IF THERE ARE NONE VIRTUALLY.

UH, REGARDING PUBLIC COMMENT.

[PUBLIC COMMENT Opportunity to address the Cultural Heritage Commission on non-agenda items. Each speaker is limited to three minutes to make their comments unless extended by the Chair.]

IF YOU ARE JOINING US VIRTUALLY AND YOU'D LIKE TO PROVIDE PUBLIC COMMENT ON NON-AG ITEMS, PLEASE USE THE RAISE HAND FUNCTION AT THIS TIME.

THERE APPEARS TO BE NO FURTHER PUBLIC COMMENT.