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GOOD MORNING AGAIN, WELCOME TO THE PLANNING COMMITTEE.
UH, IT'S THURSDAY, DECEMBER 4TH, UH, CALLING IN THE MEETING TO ORDER.
AND IF I COULD ASK DINA FOR A ROLL CALL, PLEASE.
[ROLL CALL]
SCOTT PRESENT AND MEMBER MCGUIRE HERE.AND WE HAVE REGULAR AGENDA ITEM NUMBER ONE.
[1. 25-57136 Recommendation to receive and file the Water Main Breaks Overview and Analysis. Suggested Action: Approve recommendation. ]
IT'S A RECOMMENDATION TO RECEIVE AND FILE THE WATER MAIN BREAKS, OVERVIEW AND ANALYSIS.UH, MAY I PLEASE HAVE A MOTION TO BEGIN THE DISCUSSION? THANK YOU.
AND I WILL SECOND, UH, CALLING ON ROBERT VERSA.
UM, GOOD MORNING, CHAIR, SCOTT.
GOOD MORNING AND GOOD MORNING.
I'M THE DIRECTOR OF WATER AND SEWER ENGINEERING FOR THE DEPARTMENT.
UH, AND IT, IT IS MY PRIVILEGE, UH, TO PROVIDE THIS COMMITTEE.
NOW, I WISH THE SUBJECT MATTER WAS A LITTLE MORE CHEERFUL IN LINE WITH THE HOLIDAY SEASON, BUT NONETHELESS, UH, I WILL BE PROVIDING A HIGH LEVEL OVERVIEW AND ANALYSIS OF MAY BREAKS.
UM, THE PRESENTATION ITSELF IS MEANT TO FACILITATE CONVERSATION BETWEEN THE COMMITTEE AND STAFF, SO IF YOU DO HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO STOP ME AND WE'LL TRY TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS FOR YOU.
SO WITH THAT SAID, UH, I'M GONNA JUMP RIGHT INTO THE PRESENTATION ITSELF.
JUST A GENERAL OVERVIEW OF OUR WATER SYSTEM.
SO WE HAVE APPROXIMATELY 900 PLUS MILES OF WATER PIPELINES IN OUR SYSTEM.
UH, JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF THAT, IF YOU TAKE ALL OUR PIPES AND LAY THEM END TO END IN THE STRAIGHT LINE, UH, IT'LL GET YOU FROM LONG BEACH TO PROBABLY SOMEWHERE AROUND MOUNT RAINIER IN WASHINGTON.
SO THAT'S HOW MANY PIPES WE HAVE.
UM, SO OF THAT 916 MILES, APPROXIMATELY 800 MILES ARE DISTRIBUTION MAINS AND ANOTHER 100 MILES OF TRANSMISSION MAINS.
AND I'LL GET INTO THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO.
UH, THE MAINS RANGED IN SIZE FROM TWO TO 72 INCHES, AND WE HAVE APPROXIMATELY 93,000 SERVICE CONNECTIONS.
UH, ANOTHER CRITICAL COMPONENT OF OUR WATER SYSTEM RELATED TO MAIN BREAKS IS WE HAVE 24,000 VALVES IN OUR SYSTEMS. AND THOSE VALVES BECOME CRITICAL WHENEVER WE DO HAVE A MAIN BREAK BECAUSE WE NEED TO ISOLATE THOSE SECTIONS OF PIPE.
SO, AND AGAIN, I'LL GET GET INTO THAT IN A LATER SLIDE.
SO, DISTRIBUTION VERSUS TRANSMISSION MEANS, UH, THE MAIN DIFFERENCE IS SIZE.
UM, SERVICES, WE HAVE SERVICES ON DISTRIBUTION.
MAIN SERVICES ARE WHAT CONNECTS THE PIPE TO METERED CUSTOMERS.
UM, TYPICALLY WE DO NOT HAVE, UH, SERVICES ON TRANSMISSIONS.
NOW, THERE ARE SOME EXCEPTIONS TO THAT.
UH, IF WE DON'T HAVE A DISTRIBUTION NAME NEAR A SERVICE CONNECTION, WE WILL, WE WILL PUT THAT ON A TRANSMISSION MAN.
UH, THE SAME GOES FOR FIRE HYDRANTS AS WELL.
UH, WE TRY TO PUT ALL OUR FIRE HYDRANTS ON OUR DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM, UH, VALVING, UH, WE HAVE VALVING ON BOTH TYPES OF PIPE.
UM, AND HOWEVER, WITH THE TRANSMISSION MAINS, THEY ARE SPACED, UH, AT A MUCH LARGER DISTANCE.
UH, AND AGAIN, ANYTHING 12 INCHES AND GLASS IS CONSIDERED A DISTRIBUTION MAIN AND ABOVE 12 INCHES IS, UH, TRANSMISSION MAIN.
SO I'M GONNA BREAK OUT WITH A HUMAN ANATOMY, UH,
SO OUR TRANSMISSION VEINS ARE PROBABLY COMPARABLE TO OUR ARTERIES AND VEINS.
THE AORTA OR JUGULAR VEIN, UM, DISTRIBUTION VEINS ARE THE ARTERIALS AND ES, AND OUR SERVICE CONNECTIONS ARE CONSIDERED CAPITAL.
SO A BREAKDOWN OF A PIPELINE MATERIAL IN OUR WATER SYSTEM.
UH, BY FAR, UH, THE MOST, UH, MILES WE HAVE IS FOR ASBESTOS CEMENT PIPE, UH, JUST UNDER 400, UH, MILES OF AC PIPE.
WE HAVE ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, LESS THAN 300 MILES OF, UH, DUCTILE IRON AND, UH, CAST IRON.
WE HAVE ABOUT A LITTLE OVER A HUNDRED, A HUNDRED MILES.
SO WHEN WE STARTED OUR REPLACEMENT PROGRAM BACK IN THE LATE
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EIGHTIES, UH, THE MAIN FOCUS OF OUR PIPELINE REPLACEMENTS WERE ON CAST IRON.UM, WE FOUND THAT, UH, A MAJORITY OF OUR BREAKS WERE ON OUR CAST IRON PIPES.
UH, THESE WERE OLDER PIPES, UH, THAT WERE INSTALLED IN THE THIRTIES AND FORTIES.
SO, UH, THROUGH THE YEARS, WE'VE HAD A PRETTY AGGRESSIVE CAST IRON MAIN REPLACEMENT PROGRAM.
UH, AND WE'VE TAKEN CARE OF A LOT OF THE LOW LYING FRUIT IN TERMS OF THOSE REPLACEMENTS.
UH, WE, WE STILL, OBVIOUSLY WE STILL DO HAVE CAST IRON MAIN CENTER SYSTEM.
UH, A LOT OF THOSE PIPES ARE LOCATED IN THE OLDER PART OF TOWN TOWARDS THE DOWNTOWN AREA.
SO WE DO HAVE A SPECIFIC PROGRAM TO REPLACE THOSE PIPELINES.
UH, IT'S CALLED OUR ALLEY MAIN CONVERSION PROJECT, WHERE WE PUT THE NEW PIPE IN THE STREET AND BASICALLY ABANDONED THE MAIN.
SO THIS GRAPH SHOWS YOU THE BREAKS BY, UH, MATERIAL PER YEAR.
UH, FIRST, UH, YOU CAN SEE THAT WE, WE'VE HAD JUST UNDER, UH, 30 MAIN BREAKS FOR FY 25.
UM, AND A MAJORITY OF THOSE ARE AC PIPE.
AND THAT'S TO BE EXPECTED BECAUSE AGAIN, UH, WE HAVE JUST UNDER 400 MILES OF AC PIPE IN OUR SYSTEM.
UH, YOU CAN SEE THE CAST IRON MEANS, UH, ARE NEXT HIGHEST IN TERMS OF BREAKS.
UH, THEN WE HAVE SOME DUCTILE IRON AND AS WELL AS SCC PIPE.
SO THE GENERAL TREND, UH, HAS DECREASED.
UH, I REMEMBER A TIME BACK IN THE, UH, LATE NINE, UH, EIGHTIES AND EARLY NINETIES, I THINK THE HIGH END MAIN BREAKS WAS 180 IN THE, IN THE GIVEN YEAR.
SO RIGHT NOW WE DO AVERAGE AROUND 30 OR SO.
UH, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF VARIAL VARIABLES THAT DRIVE, UH, HOW MAIN BREAKS AND, UH, OCCUR.
AND, UH, YOU KNOW, I'LL GET TO THAT IN A SUBSEQUENT SLIDE.
SO, THE EFFECTS OF MAIN BREAKS, OBVIOUSLY, UH, THERE'S SERVICE INTERRUPTIONS THAT OCCUR, UH, WHEN THERE'S A MAIN BREAK.
UM, WHEN WE HAVE A MAIN BREAK, WE HAVE TO ISOLATE THE PIPE, UH, THAT INCLU THAT INVOLVES, UM, CLOSING VALVES TO GET THAT ISOLATION.
WELL, THAT SECTION OF PIPE MIGHT HAVE SERVICES CONNECTED TO IT.
SO WHEN WE SHUT OFF AND ISOLATE THAT PIPE SECTION, THAT ALSO OBVIOUSLY SHUTS OFF SERVICE TO THOSE CUSTOMERS.
UM, SO THAT'S THE MAIN SERVICE INTERRUPTION THAT OCCURS DURING MAIN BREAKS.
UH, THERE'S POTENTIAL PROPERTY OR STREET DAMAGE.
UH, WHEN A MAIN BREAK OCCURS, IT COULD WASH AWAY ALL THE MATERIAL UNDERNEATH THE STREET PAVEMENT, FOR EXAMPLE, UH, WHICH COULD LEAD TO A DEPRESSION IN THE STREET OR A POSSIBLE SINKHOLE.
UM, TRAFFIC IMPACTS, UH, WHEN OUR CREWS GO OUT TO REPAIR AND MAIN BREAK, YOU HAVE AN EXCAVATOR, YOU HAVE A DUMP TRUCK, YOU HAVE VARIOUS UTILITY VEHICLES THAT ARE ON SITE, UH, THAT LEADS TO A LANE CLOSURE, OR AT WORSE, A FULL STREET CLOSURE.
SO DEFINITELY TRAFFIC IMPACTS.
UH, THERE'S A POTENTIAL FOR STREET OR PROPERTY FLOODING.
UH, WE HAD A COUPLE OF HIGH PROFILE MAIN BREAKS, UH, LAST FISCAL YEAR, UH, ONE ON ORANGE AND ONE AT BIXBY HILL, UH, WHICH DID CAUSE SOME FLOODING AND SOME EXTENSIVE PROPERTY DAMAGE.
UH, THEN THERE ARE HIGHER IMPACTS ON CRITICAL FACILITIES.
SO IF, LET'S SAY WE HAVE A MAIN BREAK THAT IS ADJACENT TO A HOSPITAL, YOU KNOW, THAT POTENTIALLY IMPACTS HOSPITAL OPERATIONS.
SO, SO CAUSES AND MAIN BRAKES, UH, PIPE MATERIAL IS A BIG DRIVER.
UH, AS I MENTIONED, UH, CAST IRON.
UM, WE REPLACE CAST IRON WITH DUCTILE IRON PIPE.
UH, WE FOUND THAT CAST IRON IS LESS FLEXIBLE AND MORE BRITTLE AS OPPOSED TO DUCTILE IRON, WHICH IS MORE FLEXIBLE.
UH, H OF PIPE, OBVIOUSLY AS OLDER PIPE, YOU KNOW, THEY EVENTUALLY END UP, UH, AT THE END OF THEIR USEFUL LIFE.
SO, NEW DUCT IRON THAT IS INSTALLED TODAY, THE INSPECTED USEFUL LIFE IS ABOUT A HUNDRED YEARS, RIGHT? BUT FOR TYPICAL, YOU KNOW, DUCTILE IRON PIPE IN SANTA GUARD FROM 50 TO 75 YEARS.
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UH, SYSTEM PRESSURE SURGES.UM, LUCKILY WE DON'T HAVE ANY OF THAT, UH, IN OUR SYSTEM, BUT WHEN THERE'S A SPIKE IN PRESSURES THAT COULD LEAD TO, UH, MAIN BREAKS AS WELL, UH, CORROSION, UH, THAT IS A COMMON CAUSE OF MAIN BREAKS.
UM, DEPENDING ON THE LOCATION OF THE PIPE, UM, YOU CAN HAVE EFFECTS OF GROUNDWATER.
UH, BUT WHEN WE INSTALL PIPES, WE ACTUALLY WRAP THEM IN POLYETHYLENE.
IT'S A PLASTIC WRAP, UH, WHICH ADDS PROTECTION TO THE PIPE AND PREVENTS CORROSION.
UM, HOWEVER, IF YOU JUST HAVE A SINGLE PINHOLE IN THAT PLASTIC WRAP, MOISTURE CAN GET IN AND CAUSE CORROSION.
SO IT'S CRITICAL THAT YOU KNOW THAT INSULATION IS DONE CORRECTLY, SOIL MOVEMENT AND EROSION.
UH, SO IT'S CRITICAL WHENEVER WE LAY PIPE THAT IT'S LAID ON A STABLE FOUNDATION.
SO IT'S, IT, IT, IT, IT IS CRITICAL THAT COMPACTION OF SOIL IS MET, BECAUSE IF THE SOIL ISN'T COMPACTED PROPERLY, THEN YOU COULD HAVE SETTLEMENT IN THE FUTURE, RIGHT? AND IF THAT FOUNDATION SETTLES, THAT CAUSES A BRIDGE, UH, OVER THE PIPELINE ITSELF, UM, AND IT LOSES ITS SUPPORT.
UH, IF YOU THINK ABOUT A PIPE WHICH IS LAYING UNDERGROUND, THERE'S ALSO FORCES, UH, FROM THE SURFACE COMING DOWN ON THE PIPE.
SO ANY VEHICLES DRIVING OVER THE PIPE, UM, YOU KNOW, SOIL ABOVE THE PIPE AT ALL ADDS TO POTENTIAL STRESS.
UH, ON OUR PIPES, UH, TREE ROOTS, THIS IS MAINLY A PROBLEM ON SEWER, BUT IT'LL, IT CAN HAPPEN ON THE WATER SIDE.
A TREE ROOT WILL SEEK OUT WATER SOURCES, RIGHT? SO IF THERE IS A LEAK ON A WATER PIPE, A TREE ROOT WILL FIND THAT, AND IT'LL BASICALLY PUT A STRANGLEHOLD ON OUR PIPE.
SO, UH, THIRD PARTIES, WE OCCASIONALLY HAVE CONTRACTORS HIT OUR PIPES.
UM, UNFORTUNATELY IT HAPPENS MORE OFTEN THAN WE'D LIKE TO.
BUT THEN LASTLY, TEMPERATURE, UH, ESPECIALLY WITH METAL PIPES, UH, METAL EXPANDS AND CONTRACTS DURING EXTREME TEMPERATURE CHANGES.
IT'S MAINLY A PROBLEM FOR US WHEN COLD WATER IS INTRODUCED INTO OUR PIPES, OR COLDER WATER, UH, IS INTRODUCED, UH, INTO OUR PIPES.
UH, I KNOW TY HAD MENTIONED, UH, AT THE LAST BOARD MEETING, UH, OUR GROUND WATER IS TYPICALLY WARMER THAN IMPORTED WATER THAT WE RECEIVE.
UM, BUT EVEN IF THAT COLD WATER GETS EVEN COLDER, THERE'S A POTENTIAL FOR, UH, BREAKS TO OCCUR.
SO BACK IN 2023, UH, THE DEPARTMENT, UM, TOOK THE EFFORT TO COME UP WITH A STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE, UH, FOR MAIN BREAKS.
AND PART OF THAT PROCEDURE, UH, INVOLVES OBVIOUSLY LOCATING THE BRAKE.
YOU SEE WATER COMING OUT OF THE PAVEMENT, YOU MAY NOT HAVE AN IDEA WHERE THAT BRAKE IS, RIGHT.
UH, SO WHAT HAPPENS IS A LOT OF TIMES THE DRILL HOLES ARE, ARE, ARE PUT INTO THE PAVEMENT, AND THEN YOU PROBE TO SEE WHERE THE WATER IS.
SO, UM, ONCE YOU DETERMINE THE GENERAL LOCATION OF THE BRAKE, UH, YOU DIDN'T ISOLATE THAT BRAKE, AS I MENTIONED.
LET'S SAY IF YOU HAVE A 50 FOOT SECTION OF PIPE, UH, AND YOU HAVE TWO VALVES AT THE END OF, OF THAT SEGMENT, AND THE BREAK IS IN THE MIDDLE, THE SIMPLEST SHUTDOWN YOU CAN HAVE IS CLOSING THOSE TWO VALVES AND YOU ISOLATE THAT BREAK.
UM, WHAT'S CRITICAL IS IF ONE OF THOSE VALVES ISN'T WORKING, THEN YOU HAVE TO GO TO THE NEXT VALVE DOWN THE LINE, AND SO ON AND SO ON, UNTIL YOU GET A GOOD SHUTDOWN.
THAT IN TURN COULD POTENTIALLY IMPACT A MUCH WIDER, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, POPULATION OF, UH, OF CUSTOMERS.
FOR US, UM, WE INFORM THE RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES OF IMPACTS TO WATER SERVICE.
UH, OBVIOUSLY, AGAIN, ONCE WE ISOLATE THE BRAKE, UH, WE MORE THAN LIKELY WILL, UH, IMPACT SERVICES TO THOSE CUSTOMERS.
UH, WE CAN EITHER CLAMP OR REPLACE A WHOLE SECTION OF THE PIPE AS PART OF THE REPAIR.
UH, AND TYPICALLY OUR MAIN BRAKES ARE REPAIRED BY OUR OWN PERSONNEL, OUR IN-HOUSE CREWS, UH, EVERY NOW AND THEN, WE DO UTILIZE EMERGENCY CONTRACTORS, UH, TO REPAIR MAIN BREAKS.
UM, IN SOME INSTANCES, IF THE PIPE ITSELF, IT,
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LET'S SAY, IS A DEEP PIPE, UH, THAT REQUIRES SHORING, UH, WE'LL HAVE AN EMERGENCY CONTRACTOR COME IN AND DO THAT REPAIR.SO I'M GONNA HAND IT OVER TO THOMAS KEL, OUR SENIOR DIRECTOR OF ENGINEERING, AND THOMAS IS GONNA COVER, YOU KNOW, OUR MASTER PLANNING EFFORTS, UH, FOR OUR WATER SYSTEM.
UM, GOOD MORNING AGAIN, UH, CHAIR, UH, SCOTT AND, UH, COMMISSIONER MEMBER MCGUIRE.
UM, TYPICALLY THE WAY WE PLAN, UM, OUR, OUR, UM, UH, OUR PIPELINES AND OUR, THAT ADDRESSES PRIMARILY MAIN BREAKS IS THROUGH A DISTRIBUTION MASTER PLAN.
UH, IT'S NORMAL IN THE INDUSTRY TO UPDATE THESE EVERY FIVE YEARS.
THE LAST ONE WE DID WAS BACK IN 2020.
UM, THE GOAL OF THAT MASTER PLAN, UM, WAS PRIMARILY TO ADDRESS HYDRAULIC DEFICIENCIES.
AND AS YOU KNOW, THE STATE COMES UP WITH, UH, NEWER STANDARDS OF, UH, FIRE FLOW REQUIREMENTS.
IT'S, UH, CRITICAL TO MAKE SURE THAT WE MODEL, UH, WE HYDROLOGICALLY MODEL OR, UH, HYDRAULICALLY MODEL THE, THE SYSTEM THAT WE HAVE AND LOOK FOR DEFICIENCIES.
BASICALLY WHAT WE DO IS WE CREATE THE SAME TYPE OF NETWORK ON A SYSTEM UTILIZING A SOFTWARE.
WE CAN IDENTIFY WHERE WE HAVE LOW PRESSURES, WHERE OUR DEMAND CHANGES WITH OUR, AND MOST OF WHERE OUR DEFICIENCIES ARE.
SO IT DIDN'T REALLY DIVE INTO, YOU KNOW, MAIN BREAKS, OR IT DID A FIELD ASSESSMENT PER SE, AT THAT TIME, BECAUSE THAT REPORT WAS PRIMARILY TO ADDRESS THE FIRE FLOW DEMAND.
UM, AFTER THAT, AS PART OF THAT REPORT, THERE WERE SEVERAL PROJECTS THAT CAME OUT OF IT, UH, THAT HAS TO DO WITH UPSIZING, UH, UPSIZING PIPES TO MEET THE HYDRAULIC DEMAND.
AND WE COMPLETED FIVE OF THOSE PROJECTS.
UH, TWO PROJECTS ARE STILL IN CONSTRUCTION, SEVEN PROJECTS ARE IN DESIGN.
UH, WE HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO UPDATE THE, UH, THE HYDRAULIC MODEL BASED ON THE IMPROVEMENTS THAT WE'VE DONE, BUT THAT IS WHY WE'RE NOW IN 2025, UH, PROPOSING A NEW MASTER PLAN.
THE BOARD APPROVED THE PREPARATION OF A NEW DISTRIBUTION MASTER PLAN A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO.
UM, THAT MASTER PLAN INCLUDES CONCEPTS LIKE, YOU KNOW, DEVELOPING THE HYDRAULIC MODEL, AS WELL AS LOOKING INTO AN AI APPROACH ON HOW WE DETECT LEAKS.
UH, SO, YOU KNOW, AI, USING AI HAS BECOME, YOU KNOW, SOMEWHAT OF A, A, A POPULAR CONCEPT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, WHENEVER WE TALK ABOUT AI, THERE IS ALWAYS TWO COMPONENTS TO IT.
ONE IS HOW DO YOU COLLECT THE DATA OUT IN THE FIELD, AND THE, THE NEXT, THE SECOND COMPONENT IS HOW YOU ANALYZE THE DATA THAT YOU GET FROM YOUR FIELD.
THE AI COMPONENTS COME INTO PLAY WHILE ANALYZING THE DATA.
HOWEVER, HOW THE DATA IS COLLECTED OUT IN THE FIELD, THAT HAS BEEN A PRACTICE THAT HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR NUMEROUS YEARS.
UM, SO WE'RE FOR, FOR THE PROPOSED MASTER PLAN, WE ARE USING AN ACOUSTIC MODEL, UH, MEANING WE PLACE THESE SENSORS ON SPECIFIC PIPE SEGMENTS AND COLLECT THAT DATA AND USE AI TO ANALYZE WHERE, YOU KNOW, FUTURE LEAKS MIGHT O OCCUR.
SO THAT DATA WILL TELL US THE THICKNESS OF THE PIPE, UH, WHICH IN TURN WILL ENABLE US, YOU KNOW, TO PROJECT DETERIORATION RATES AND EVENTUALLY PREDICT THE PROBABILITY OF THAT LIGHT, THAT, UH, PIPE BEING DEFECTIVE AND ESTIMATE WHEN IT MIGHT LEAK.
UH, AND THAT TYPE OF APPROACH WILL HELP US, UH, CENTRALIZE ALL OUR INFORMATION, INCLUDING, YOU KNOW, THE INFORMATION THAT WE GET FROM SCADA REGARDING FLOWS, UM, AND PRESSURE SURGES, ET CETERA.
UM, AND WE GET THIS DATA REAL LIFE.
UM, IT'S THE CURRENT CONDITION OF THE PIPE, UM, AND THE, THE APPROACH THAT WE'RE TAKING IN THE NEW MASTER PLAN IS MORE FOCUSED ON CONDITION ASSESSMENT OF EXISTING PIPE VERSUS THE ONE THAT WE DID IN 2020, WHICH IS PRIMARILY FOCUSED ON, YOU KNOW, HYDRAULIC MODEL AND FLOW BASED TYPE OF ASSESSMENT.
UH, SO THAT, THAT WILL ENABLE US TO COME UP WITH NEW PROJECTS WHERE WE CAN START REPLACING PIPES PROACTIVELY INSTEAD OF ADDRESSING ADDRESSING LEAKS AFTER THEY HAPPEN.
UH, SO THIS IS A SLIDE THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, TIE AND YANG, UH, UH, PRESENTED LAST TIME, NOT TRYING TO TAKE CREDIT FROM THEM, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, GIVEN THE LENGTH OF PIPE THAT WE HAVE, AS ROB MENTIONED EARLIER, WE HAVE ROUGHLY, YOU KNOW, 916, UM, MILES OF PIPE, WHICH IS A, AN
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EXTENSIVE NETWORK.UH, THE A WWA, UH, CONSIDERS AN AVERAGE LEAK TO BE ABOUT 15 LEAKS PER HUNDRED MILES OF PIPE.
AND IF YOU SEE, UM, OUR CITY DOESN'T HAVE NEARLY AS MUCH AS 15.
I MEAN, THE HIGHEST THAT WE HAVE IS PROBABLY 2024 OR 20, UH, 2007, WHICH WE PICKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT 10 LEAKS PER A HUNDRED MILES OF PIPE.
UH, HOWEVER, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE'RE A BIG CITY AND WE HAVE LARGER PIPES, WHEN LEAKS OCCUR, THEY, THEY, THEY KIND OF CAUSE DISRUPTION TO OUR COMMUNITY, RIGHT? SO WE ARE TRYING TO ADDRESS THOSE PROACTIVELY INSTEAD OF, UH, ADDRESSING, ADDRESSING THEM AFTER THEY HAPPEN.
SO BECAUSE OF OUR LOW, UM, BECAUSE OF THE PLANS THAT WE HAVE IN PLACE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE DISTRIBUTION PROGRAM, SELF-ASSESSMENT THAT I, UH, PREVIOUSLY DISCUSSED AND, YOU KNOW, OTHER PROACTIVE STEPS TAKEN BY, UH, OUR UTILITIES DEPARTMENT, WE WERE ABLE TO, UH, GET THE 10 YEAR PRESIDENTIAL BOARD.
UH, SO THIS, THE UTILITIES DEPARTMENT HAVE A HISTORY OF CONTINUOUSLY ASSESSING ITS PIPELINE AND ITS NETWORK OVER THE YEARS, AND WAS ABLE TO MAINTAIN A RELATIVELY LOW LEAKS COMPARED WITH, YOU KNOW, THE AVERAGE THAT IS EXPECTED PER AMERICAN WATERWORKS ASSOCIATION.
WITH THAT, I CAN INCLUDE MY PRESENTATION.
I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY OF YOUR QUESTIONS.
IS THAT YOUR FIRST PRESENTATION? YES.
WHERE ARE WE AT? UH, DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS AND ANY COMMISSIONER COMMENTS? YES,
SO AI NEWBIE, I'M USING CHAT GPT, BUT THIS IS NOT THIS.
UM, SO THE AI, YOU, YOU TELL IT WHAT TO COLLECT IN TERMS OF DATA.
DO YOU INSTRUCT AI TO LOOK FOR DATA? IS THAT WHERE THIS STARTS? YES.
SO THE, THE AI BASICALLY IS USED AS AN ANANA ANALYSIS TOOL.
SO WE BA IT BASICALLY ANALYZES THE DATA, BUT HOW WE COLLECT THE DATA THAT'S, THERE ARE DIFFERENT METHODOLOGIES.
LIKE THE ONE THAT WE ARE PROPOSING RIGHT NOW AS PART OF OUR PLAN IS AN ACOUSTIC MODEL BASICALLY USES SOUND AND, YOU KNOW, DETECT THE STIFFNESS OF THE PIPE.
AS THE SOUND TRAVELS, THERE ARE OTHER METHODOLOGIES LIKE ELECTROMAGNETIC, THEY PUSH CURRENT THROUGH THE SYSTEM AND IT COLLECTS THE DATA.
SO ALL THAT DATA GETS COLLECTED AND GETS FED TO THE AI SOFTWARE OR PROGRAM THAT ANALYZES THE DATA, AND IT PREDICTS THE, THE PROBABILITY OF LEAKS HAPPENING IN THAT SPECIFIC LOCATION.
SO THE PREDICTION, HOW DO YOU SAMPLE TEST THE VALIDITY OF THE DATA? HOW DO YOU KNOW IT'S GOOD DATA? IT'S, IT'S GOOD DATA THAT, SO FOR EXAMPLE, FOR THE, FOR THE METHODOLOGY THAT WE'RE USING THE ACOUSTICS, UH, ANALOGY, WHAT THEY DO IS THEY GO OUT IN THE FIELD AND THEY PLACE THESE SENSORS, AND THAT SENSOR COLLECTS, UH, SONIC DATA, MEANING SOUND WAVES, AND IT, IT DETECTS THE SIZE OF THE PIPE AS THE SOUND TRAVELS.
SO IF YOU HAVE, FOR EXAMPLE, A PIPE THAT HAS BEEN RUSTING FOR A LONG TIME, THE DIAMETER OF THAT PIPE CHANGES BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN COMPROMISED BY RUST, RIGHT? SO IT GIVES YOU A FAIRLY ACCURATE DATA AND IT GIVES YOU THE THICKNESS OF THE PIPE.
SO IF A NORMAL PIPE THAT HAS, THAT HAS NO DEFECTS, HAVE A THICKNESS OF HALF AN INCH OR A QUARTER OF AN INCH, AND AS THE SOUND TRAVELS, IF THE THICKNESS THAT IS MEASURED IS LESS THAN A QUARTER OF AN INCH, SAY ONE EIGHTH OF AN INCH, THEN THE PROBABILITY OF THAT, THAT PIPE, THAT THICKNESS SPELLING OF, OR OVER A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME IS HIGH.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF THE CALCULATION OR THE METHODOLOGY, BUT THAT'S A LOT OF DATA TO COLLECT ACROSS THE LENGTH OF THE PIPE, RIGHT? AND THAT'S WHERE THE AI MODEL COMES INTO PLAY.
SO YOU FOCUSED ON ACOUSTIC ACOUSTIC AS YOUR METHOD, CORRECT.
IN THIS INSTANCE, WE, SO YOU'RE NOT REALLY CONSIDERING WHAT TYPE OF MATERIAL THE PIPE IS? YES.
SO THAT'S THE, THE, THE ADVANTAGE OF USING ACOUSTICS.
YOU JUST MEASURE THE DIAMETER OF THE PIPE, OF THE SOUND WAVE MOVE MOVES, RIGHT? AND THAT'S, THAT'S PART OF THE KEY.
IT MEASURES THE DIAMETER OF THE PIPE AND THE STIFFNESS OF THE PIPE.
REGARDLESS OF THE MATERIAL TYPE, ALL OF THESE MATERIALS HAVE STANDARD PROPERTIES, RIGHT? IF IT IS A STEEL PIPE, IT WILL HAVE ONE STANDARD PROPERTY.
IF IT IS AN AC PIPE, IT HAS A STANDARD PROPERTY, ANY DEVIATION FROM THAT IS WHAT WE CONSIDER.
THAT SOUNDS LIKE GOOD DATA TO ME ANYWAY.
ONE, ONE ADDITIONAL PIECE TOO.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DATA, DATA, THERE'S A WIDE RANGE OF INFORMATION, AND TODAY WE GAVE YOU JUST A BRIEF SNAPSHOT, THE BRIEFEST SNAPSHOT ON SEVERAL DATA
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ELEMENTS.SO THERE IS THE TESTING THAT YOU CAN DO TO EVALUATE THE THICKNESS OF THE PIPE.
NOW WE HAVE 900 MILES OF PIPE, SO THE ABILITY TO TEST ALL 900 MILES OF PIPE THAT WAY WOULD REPRESENT A CHALLENGE.
WE HAVE A WEALTH OF HISTORICAL DATA.
WE HAVE THE AGE OF THE PIPE, WE HAVE DIFFERENT ELEMENTS OF ITS, UH, MATERIAL, THE VALVE LOCATIONS, HISTORY OF BREAKAGE IN GEOGRAPHIC ZONES.
WE YOU HAVE DATA ON TOP OF DATA ON TOP OF DATA, ON TOP OF DATA.
AND SO WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AI, AI LOOSELY USED, LIKE THOMAS SAID, IS AN ANALYSIS TOOL.
WE'LL USE THAT TOOL TO USE ALL OF THAT DATA AND TO BEGIN TO SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN THIS DATA POINT, THIS DATA POINT, AND THIS DATA POINT, HAVE YOU THOUGHT THAT MAYBE YOU HAVE AN EXPOSURE HERE, OR PERHAPS YOU HAVE AN EXPOSURE HERE, OR PERHAPS YOU HAVE AN EXPOSURE IN GENERAL WITH CERTAIN ASPECTS OF PIPE, WITH CERTAIN DETAILS ABOUT THE PIPE.
IF WE TRY TO LEAVE IT TO OURSELVES TO DO ALL OF THAT ANALYSIS, ONE, IT PUTS, IT PUTS THE BURDEN ON US, RIGHT? BUT IF WE HAVE TOOLS THAT HELP US GIVE THAT THIRD PARTY, YOU KNOW, NEUTRAL ASSESSMENT, THAT'S THE BENEFIT OF AI.
UM, SO REALLY IT, IT IS ALL OF THAT DATA.
AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, THIS ADDITIONAL METHOD, YOU ARE, YOU ARE CORRECT THOUGH YOU ARE CORRECT BECAUSE WE, WE ENGAGED IN A CONVERSATION WITH A, A PROFESSOR WHO DEALS WITH AI AND THEY WERE FROM CAL STATE NORTHRIDGE WANNA CREDIT ROB FOR, FOR PUTTING TOGETHER THAT CONVERSATION WITH THE PROFESSORS FROM CAL STATE NORTHRIDGE.
AND YOUR LINE OF INQUIRY, COMMISSIONER MCGUIRE WAS EXACTLY CORRECT, THE PIPE'S IN THE GROUND.
SO WE CAN PREDICT AND SAY YES AND SAY WE THINK THAT'S THE SPOT.
AND YES, YOU COULD HAVE WHAT IN THE COMPUTER INDUSTRY IS SOMETIMES CALLED, UH, OR THE ANALYSIS INDUSTRY.
I'M LOOKING AT YEN IS THE FALSE POSITIVE.
YOU DUG UP THE STREET, YOU TOOK UP THE TRAFFIC LANE, YOU DID ALL THIS STUFF, AND YOU LOOK AT THE PIPE AND YES, THERE WAS SOMETHING THERE, BUT IT WASN'T GONNA BREAK.
YOU DUG UP THE STREET, NOW, PUT IT ALL BACK TOGETHER, PAVED THE STREET ANEW.
AND THAT IS THE CONSEQUENCE OF A FALSE POSITIVE.
SO AS A CREDIT TO ENGINEERING, THEY'RE GONNA TAKE ALL OF THAT INTO ACCOUNT.
UM, WE WILL LOOK AT AI AS TO HOW AI GETS USED.
UM, AND AT THE SAME TIME WE'LL BE MINDFUL THAT THIS IS PART OF THE MAYOR'S BUDGET REQUEST, THAT WE BE SOMEHOW TRANSPARENT AND CLEAR THAT WE'RE USING THESE TYPES OF ANALYSIS TO TRY TO HELP US IN THE FUTURE.
THAT'S ENOUGH FOR, FOR THIS ONE, I THINK.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE ALWAYS THE OUTLIERS TOO.
RIGHT? UM, SO ROB, JUST SO SPECIFICALLY THEN THE, THE SLIDE THAT WAS ABOUT BREAKS BY MATERIAL, I NOTICED THAT THIS STEEL CYLINDER CONCRETE APPEARED FOR THE FIRST TIME.
IS THAT TRUE OR AM I COLORBLIND? IS THAT LIKE A GREEN DOT ON TOP THERE AND I DIDN'T SEE ANY GREEN.
SO WHAT, SO LOOKING BACK AT OUR HISTORICAL BREAK DATA ON THAT TYPE OF PIPE, WE'VE HAD THREE OF THOSE BREAKS SINCE 1993.
UNFORTUNATELY, THAT ONE THAT OCCURRED IN 2025 WAS BIXBY HILL, SO, OKAY.
UH, WE'VE BEEN EXTREMELY UNFORTUNATE TO HAVE TWO HIGH VISIBILITY WATER MAIN BREAKS IN THE LAST, UH, HAS IT BEEN A YEAR NOW.
UM, AND I, I THINK THAT'S WHERE SOME OF THE CONCERN COMES FROM, UH, AS FAR AS, UH, MAYBE THE MAYOR'S OFFICE.
UM, AND HAVING AN EDUCATION LIKE THIS IS, IS VERY HELPFUL.
UM, THE PRESIDENT'S AWARD, UH, THAT, THAT WE RECEIVED, UH, I I'M WONDERING HOW WELL WE'RE, WE'RE, UH, SPREADING THE WORD ON THAT.
LIKE, LIKE WHAT IS THE NATURE OF, OF OUR SUCCESS BEING WELL UNDER 15 BREAKS PER YEAR, AND, AND, AND, UH, WE'RE, WE'RE WELL BELOW THAT STANDARD.
ARE ARE WE DOING A, A GOOD ENOUGH JOB SPREADING THAT WORD TO SOMEBODY THAT'S LOUD TO TALK TO THE PUBLIC
[00:30:01]
BENEFIT OF WHAT YOU WANTED OUT OF A COMMITTEE MEETING, JUST TO BE MORE CONVERSATIONAL.I'M GONNA TURN IT BACK TO, HI, GOOD MORNING, PRESIDENT SCOTT JOINING PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER.
UM, AS THE DEPARTMENT, OH, THERE YOU GO.
AS THE DEPARTMENT'S BEEN WORKING ON A BUSINESS PLAN AS WELL AS OUR UPCOMING STRATEGIC PLAN, A MORE COMPREHENSIVE COMMUNICATIONS AND OUTREACH PLAN IS PART OF THAT PROCESS.
SO, UM, REALLY HIGHLIGHTING THE AMAZING WORK THAT OUR WATER TREATMENT PLANT DOES EVERY SINGLE DAY, AS WELL AS A LOT OF OUR GAS SERVICES AND WATER SERVICES CREWS AND SEWER AS WELL.
SO, UM, AS SOON AS THE TEAM DID PRESENT ON THAT, WE ARE WORKING ON A HANDFUL OF PRESS RELEASES FOR THE, UH, EXECUTIVE TEAMS REVIEW.
SO LOOKING FORWARD TO SPREADING THE WORD, AS YOU SAID.
YEAH, I THINK THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.
UH, A LOT OF TIMES, UM, WE READ HEADLINES AND THERE'S JUST NOT A LOT OF, UH, UH, ADDITIONAL DATA THAT GOES, OR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION THAT GOES WITH THOSE HEADLINES.
AND, AND, UH, YOU KNOW, I, I APPRECIATE THE MAYOR'S POSITION ON USING WHATEVER TECHNOLOGIES WE CAN TO, UM, GET WHAT MAY BE A PERCEIVED PROBLEM, UH, UNDER CONTROL, WHICH I, I THINK WE UNDERSTAND IN THIS ROOM THAT, THAT WE REALLY DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM, BUT WE CAN ALWAYS DO BETTER.
AND, AND USING WHATEVER TOOLS WE CAN, WE CAN USE, UH, TO HELP FACILITATE THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.
BUT, UM, JUST INFORMING THE PUBLIC, UH, WHICH INCLUDES CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS AND, AND THEIR STAFF AND, AND THE MAYOR, AND THAT THE CITY MANAGER AND ALL THAT IS, IT WOULD BE EXTREMELY HELPFUL.
I THINK ONE OF THE, ONE OF THE ELEMENTS THAT, THAT ROB BROUGHT UP IN HIS PRESENTATION, I THINK IS INSTRUCTIVE FOR US WORKING WITH YOU, THE BOARD AND IN GENERAL, BEING MORE TRANSPARENT, UH, AND BEING ABLE TO COMMUNICATE THE, THE ASPECT OF THE MAIN BREAK AS WAS PRESENTED TO YOU HERE AND THE EXPERIENCE, UM, ALBEIT NOT PLEASANT WITH THE MAIN BREAKS THAT YOU SAW TO FOLLOW ON ROB'S ANALOGY OF THE HUMAN BODY, THE MORE SIGNIFICANT MAIN BREAK, AND ROB POINTED OUT THE VALVES AND SO FORTH.
IF YOU THINK OF THE HUMAN BODY THAT REPRESENTS MAJOR SURGERY, RIGHT? YOU HAVE TO MANAGE BLOOD FLOW, YOU NEED TO DO ALL THESE THINGS, AND THE VALVES IS ESSENTIALLY EMBLEMATIC OF THAT.
UM, MUCH OF WHAT YOU'VE SEEN ON THE MAIN BREAKS WERE HEARD MANY TIMES HAS TO DO NOT JUST WITH THE FACT THAT THE PIPE BROKE, BUT THE FACT THAT THE VALVES ARE NOW RESPONSIBLE FOR CONTROLLING THE SITUATION BECAUSE AFTER ALL, THE PIPE BREAK IS SIGNIFICANT TO THE DEGREE THAT WATER IS COMING OUTTA THAT PIPE.
YOUR ABILITY TO CONTROL THE FLOW AND CONTROL THE FLOW RAPIDLY IS YOUR ABILITY TO MINIMIZE THE EFFECTS THAT THE PUBLIC SEES.
AT THE SAME TIME THOUGH, IN THE HUMAN BODY ANALOGY THAT ROB GAVE, HE POINTED OUT TO YOU THAT THIS NETWORK OF PIPES GROWS AND GROWS AND GROWS 93,400 SERVICE CONNECTIONS.
IF YOU THINK OF THE CAPILLARIES AND THE SOAP PART IN YOUR BODY, THIS ENTIRE STRUCTURE SITS IN AN ENVIRONMENT THAT AFFECTS IT DEEPLY EACH AND EVERY DAY.
THE PUBLIC'S REACTION TO US IS, WHY DON'T YOU JUST SIMPLY HAVE NO MAIN BREAKS? AND THAT PERHAPS IS A DIFFICULT PROPOSITION OR CONCEPT TO UNDERSTAND.
UM, KIND OF LIKE ASKING YOURSELF, MAKE SURE THAT YOU NEVER HAVE A CUT.
UM, IT'S JUST GOING TO HAPPEN, RIGHT? WHETHER THE CUT IS SMALL AND JUST TAKES A SMALL BANDAID, OR WHETHER THE CUT IS MAJOR SURGERY.
THEREIN IS THIS ASPECT OF MANAGING THE SYSTEM.
SO WE'RE GONNA DO OUR BEST TO BE MORE TRANSPARENT, UM, AND I'M HOPEFUL THAT IN THE MASTER PLANNING THERE MIGHT BE EVEN ADDITIONAL ANALYSES THAT COME FORWARD TO GIVE US GREATER INSIGHT AND WE'LL BE AS TRANSPARENT AND COMMUNICATIVE ON THAT AS POSSIBLE.
UH, ANY OTHER COMMENTS? UH, ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD? DID WE MISS ANYTHING? I, YOU KNOW, I HAVE ONE LITTLE, UM, SO HAS THERE BEEN ANY FOLLOW UP, LIKE STORIES, NOT JUST PRESS RELEASES, BUT STORIES AROUND LIKE THE ORANGE AVENUE IN BIXBY HILLS, YOU KNOW, LIKE WHAT HAPPENED BECAUSE PEOPLE, UH, I, MOST PEOPLE ARE OUT THERE WONDERING WHAT HAPPENED, LIKE HOW DID, HOW DID THAT END? HOW DID THE STORY END? SO THERE'S A OPPORTUNITY FOR STORYTELLING, IS WHAT I'M SAYING.
NOT JUST A PRESS RELEASE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT'S CENTERED AROUND THE PRESIDENT'S AWARD AND TYING THAT BACK TO MAINLINE, MAINLINE BREAKS.
BUT PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN THAT.
THE LITTLE NEWSPAPERS ARE INTERESTED IN THAT, THE GRON AND THE 9 0 8 AND 'CAUSE THOSE IMPACTED THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS.
[00:35:01]
SO I'M JUST MAYBE THROUGH THE COMMUNICATION COMMITTEE WE CAN WORK ON THAT A LITTLE BIT.YOU KNOW, NOT TO RAISE YOUR HAND,
MY PARENTS ALWAYS TOLD ME TO RAISE MY HAND.
UH, SO THANK YOU, UM, COMMISSIONER MCGUIRE ON THAT COMMENT.
SO WE HAVE HAD A LOT OF FOLLOW-UP CONVERSATIONS WITH THE CITY COUNCIL AND WITH THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS DIRECTLY IMPACTED BY THAT BREAK.
UH, WE HOSTED, UM, A VERY PRODUCTIVE COMMUNITY MEETING WITH THEM.
AND THEN OF COURSE THERE'S SOME ONGOING WORK IN THE AREA AS WELL.
SO OUR, UH, CONTACT WITH THEM IS REGULAR.
AND SO AS SOON AS WE GET MORE INFORMATION ABOUT SORT OF NEXT STEPS REGARDING, UH, THE WALL DESIGN, THAT WILL BE ANOTHER CONVERSATION THAT OKAY.
BUT JULIE NOTED, UH, REGARDING, UM, KIND OF A FOLLOW UP TO WHAT HAPPENED IN MAKING SURE THAT FOLKS KNOW THAT LONG BEACH UTILITIES IS ON IT AND WE'RE WORKING WITH THE COMMUNITY, RIGHT? IT'S A HUMAN INTEREST STORY IS MY POINT.
IT'S NOT JUST A PRESS RELEASE, WE DID THIS AND THIS HAPPENED, BUT ANYWAY, SOMEBODY LIKE RICH ARCH OR SOME OF THE COLUMNISTS WOULD BE INTRIGUED BY THIS STORY.
I THOUGHT YOU WERE GETTING UP TO SAY SOMETHING.
JUST IN CASE THERE WERE ANY MORE QUESTIONS.
WE'LL HAVE, I MEAN, HOPEFULLY YOU'VE BENEFITED FROM THIS DIALOGUE.
I THINK IT'S INCREDIBLY INSTRUCTED TO HAVE YOUR INPUT, YOUR GUIDANCE AS WELL.
IT'S NOT A TOPIC THAT ONE PRESENTATION IS GOING TO DEAL WITH, BUT RATHER IT EMPHASIZES WHERE WE NEED TO BE WITH YOU, WITH THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE AS WELL.
TRYING TO GIVE SOME GREATER UNDERSTANDING.
UM, IT'S NOT UNLIKE, UH, MY EXPERIENCE THAT I HAD RECENTLY LISTENING TO CHIEF ISH TALK ABOUT CRIME STATISTICS, UM, AND THE FACT THAT CRIME IS DOWN IN LONG BEACH AND IT IS A GREAT THING TO TOUT.
UM, AND AT THE SAME TIME, HIS COMMENT WAS, WHEN IT HAPPENS AT YOUR DOORSTEP, THOUGH IT HAPPENED AT YOUR DOORSTEP.
AND THAT CONTRAST BETWEEN THE TWO AND HOW HE WAS APPROACHING IT IS INSTRUCTIVE ON HOW WE APPROACH THESE THINGS AS WELL.
EVEN THOUGH OUR STATISTICS SHOW ONE THING AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME, WHEN SOMETHING HAPPENS IN FRONT OF YOU, YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO, TO DEAL WITH IT EFFECTIVELY AND, AND WORK WITH THE COMMUNITY.
[PUBLIC COMMENT Opportunity to address the Planning Committee on non-agenda items. Each speaker is limited to three minutes to make their comments unless extended by the Chair.]
UH, DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS? ALL RIGHT.UM, SO, UH, I THINK WE'VE GOTTA A RECEIVE AND FILE MOTION AND A SECOND.
UM, ALL THOSE IN FAVOR SAY AYE.
UH, THANK YOU GENTLEMEN, VERY MUCH APPRECIATED.
UM, THANK YOU A**L FOR FACILITATING THIS.
UM, UH, IS THERE ANYONE WISHING TO SPEAK ON A NON AGENDA ITEM? THIS IS PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD.
SEEING NONE, UH, COMMENT, PUBLIC COMMENT, PERIOD IS NOW CLOSED.
AND ARE THERE ANY ANNOUNCEMENTS?
[ANNOUNCEMENTS]
ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU.UH, THAT BEING SAID, THIS MEETING IS ADJOURNED.
[ADJOURNMENT]
FOR.